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| Author: | Ponuh [ Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Question |
I have a question. Hooray. Does Provoke potency increase as levels increase? I mean...does it become useless as BLMs and DRKs start hitting harder and generating more enmity? Or does Provoke's power increase? Is it impossible to party later on without a trick attacker? |
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| Author: | Reinheld [ Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think PLD have enough +enmity gear to keep the mobs on them the whole time. And big hitters like DRK have to sub thf eventually to avoid generating aggro. I've never had to trick on Peejo (my perm pld) ever during exp, since I also knew when to cool it down a bit (take time to cast a spell or whatever). I wasn't really ever super aggressive during my regular exp sessions before I hit 75 and I tricked on a DRG (Itto <3) which had the very under-rated ability to make all hate disappear. So when I did 2000+ dmg with a WS, aggro management wasn't that big of a deal. Since the aggro was totally gone, and the mob was near dead. It's only after hitting 75 I've stopped being conservative and going all out. I think ninjas are the only ones who kinda need trick at some point. Because even the better ninjas have lost aggro to me during regular exp (for merits~). Dunno, it's hard to say. I'm sure someone with a better approach to this will answer your question more thoroughly (like someone who is actually a tank). |
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| Author: | Krazybean [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
agree'd, the higher the lvl everyone gets the more into the job they get as well as the pld, i dont thing it has anymore potency but by the time they use provoke after a Freeze or a Sidewinder they have had enough previous hate built up to where a provoke will actaully make a difference, beside about my lvl 55, those hits 1500+ are intended for cover. but even if cover isnt ready a good flash normally brings the mobs attention right back. |
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| Author: | Whisp [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
how about just get one high lvl naked pally and one mid lvl naked pally and let em voke a mob at the same time and see who it comes to. kinda like proving who the family dog prefers. |
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| Author: | Krazybean [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
/em throw's an orcish treat. Here boy, here boy |
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| Author: | Whisp [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
"rruh" "rruh" |
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| Author: | Reinheld [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think whoever voked it first? lol |
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| Author: | Ketrebu [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yeah, whoever claims the mob will get a "hate bonus" from doing it, I don't really know why, but they do. So if you get two people to provoke a mob without doing anything else to it, it will go for whoever voked it first. I really don't know how Provoke's "potency" is calculated, all I know is that it is NOT CHR. (Melee-wise, CHR is used for "Circle" abilities and "Killer" abilities, as well as the occasional Weaponskill.) I can only assume it's done by level. Get someone to hit a mob for 100 damage, and try to provoke it off with a naked Lv5 WAR. Then try again with a naked Lv75 PLD. Of course, if you throw gear in, you get +Enmity and -Enmity stuff going into effect. If you compare how often a WHM gets hate pre-WHM/PLD AF and post-WHM/PLD AF, you'll notice a huge difference. In fact, after 60, you'll only ever see a WHM taking hate if they need to spam cure a "paper" class, like a RNG. Hmm, I wonder if I can provoke a mob, disengage it, and let someone else kill to P/L? I wouldn't have damaged it, after all. :P Probably doesn't work though or people would do it, lol. |
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| Author: | Krazybean [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ketrebu wrote: Hmm, I wonder if I can provoke a mob, disengage it, and let someone else kill to P/L? I wouldn't have damaged it, after all. :P Probably doesn't work though or people would do it, lol.
Prolly would, same as giving a cure 3 and just letting the mob concentrate on u. |
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| Author: | Peejo [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
It will not work. The second any higher lvl person touches a mob (without doing any dmg), the mob xp mod with that person's level (so you can't pl like that. Kailyn and I had tried just about any pl way you can think of to pl our other jobs). As for provoke, the hate decreases as the time goes by, that's why it is a key to provoke every 30 seconds on top of whatever else you have available to you to keep hate. Hate control is also a team effort. I don't care how many +enmity a pld has, if you have a moron dd class, you'll lose hate no matter what. A good team makes a good pld (assuming the pld isn't a moron of course). It is normally polite to take it easy until your pld uses 2nd provoke during xp pt. For any DD class opens the fight with 1k+ dmg, I'll just watch them die and laugh, because they don't deserve to get COVER to save their lives. |
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| Author: | Reinheld [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Not to mention that 99% of PLDs don't know how to use it, and 99% of non-plds realize they gotta be behind the PLD. |
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| Author: | Vurin [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Anyway Rein as for paladins Vs other classes hate I seem to recall Aiame and Skye holding hate off Kayne a lot better than peejo ever could, let alone Emerlin. |
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| Author: | Krazybean [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
oh, i was thinking that if you hit the mob to gain the hate then if it went yellow again it was free game but i see your point, kinda like the bst effect. Cover is contengancy, but if someone pops off a 700hp the mob shouldnt even move. what was the question again? oh, heres question for peejo, after i flash the mob normally ill cure myself because i have a few (non hitable moments), but if your already cured 100% and you use a cure 2 or whatever, and it cures for 0 is that hate generating or only if its used effectivly? |
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| Author: | Reinheld [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
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| Author: | Tooyooo [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
curing for 0 or doing elemental dmg for 0 or lower amounts does add hate... but not nearly as much as curing for a whole lot. I noticed i wouldnt get aggro if i curagaed and not many ppl got healed, but if alot of HP was healed i would get aggro. |
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| Author: | Pantherxx [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Reinheld wrote: Not to mention that 99% of PLDs don't know how to use it, and 99% of non-plds realize they gotta be behind the PLD.
yeah I had that happen when I see mages gets hate real bad I 90% of the time have to run to them and use cover but most do know what I am doing. Other 10% do run in the back of me and I use cover. |
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| Author: | Whisp [ Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
if a high level players touches a mob, it won't be exp-able for low level players until its HP bar is all the way full (plus one more tick i think) *and* the mob has to not "hate" anyone, meaning it's in roam mode not chase mode |
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