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Warning for archbell windower users:
https://w.yarrthepirate.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5643		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Pirato [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Warning for archbell windower users:
Source: Killvoid
Quote:
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I advice everyone who uses it to uninstall it, I know it's ridiculous that they forbid this program but it looks like they're getting serious this time
Author:  Mythiras [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
OMG O_O
Author:  Matti [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is a thread about this where Cliff responds.

btw, Cliff is the guy who wrote the windower.
Author:  Jimbean [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeh i was telling a bunch of folks who were raving about it last night that SE issued a public statement on POL that they included ways to sniff out windowers in the last maintenance and will be busting ppl hardcore. The only thing that bugs is me is they bust on innocent folks who can't do anything to interupt other ppls gameplay with this program, merely enhance there own. Then there's botters, gilsellers, 24/7 campers at nm/hnm spawns, packet sniffers, movement mods... and they can't do shit about those. -_-;
Author:  Matti [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jimbean wrote:
yeh i was telling a bunch of folks who were raving about it last night that SE issued a public statement on POL that they included ways to sniff out windowers in the last maintenance and will be busting ppl hardcore. The only thing that bugs is me is they bust on innocent folks who can't do anything to interupt other ppls gameplay with this program, merely enhance there own. Then there's botters, gilsellers, 24/7 campers at nm/hnm spawns, packet sniffers, movement mods... and they can't do shit about those. -_-;


Thye can't detect the Windower. Just don't talk about it and you are safe. haha

All thw windower does is modify a .DLL to keep FFXI from seeing Alt+Tab therefore preventing loss of fullscreen mode. No way to detect that...
Author:  Jimbean [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
all the player info is show in windows or in the game? Because if it works with like system alerts from the game then gms might be able to see that.. same way they can monitor chat logs and shit. But i really don't know, just that i know i read something on POL last night about windowers and them wanting to crack down.

i'm on ps2 -_-
Author:  Vaelen [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jimbean wrote:
all the player info is show in windows or in the game? Because if it works with like system alerts from the game then gms might be able to see that.. same way they can monitor chat logs and shit. But i really don't know, just that i know i read something on POL last night about windowers and them wanting to crack down.

i'm on ps2 -_-


While chat logs can still be saved your PC locally with the use of programs (don't think FF automatically logs for you), that information still has to go through the server. The Alt+Tab doesn't -- it's completely a client-side shortcut.
Author:  Keston is a Douche [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
But what is stopping them from integrating this detection client side, which send this info to the server? The update if i am not mistaken IS to the windows client?
Author:  Jimbean [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vaelen wrote:
Jimbean wrote:
all the player info is show in windows or in the game? Because if it works with like system alerts from the game then gms might be able to see that.. same way they can monitor chat logs and shit. But i really don't know, just that i know i read something on POL last night about windowers and them wanting to crack down.

i'm on ps2 -_-


While chat logs can still be saved your PC locally with the use of programs (don't think FF automatically logs for you), that information still has to go through the server. The Alt+Tab doesn't -- it's completely a client-side shortcut.


yeh i understand that totally, i was talking about how the new windower allows you to view everyone in your pts information (tp, hpp, mpp), being that i'm on ps I haven't tried the windower or even seen screenshots of it. I was saying how if the tp and shit is displayed somehow/someway in the game, then gms would mostly likely be able to see that? but if it's all ran on your desktop than that might be a different story. At any rate I agree that this biggest way to get caught is to run your mouth about it, so i would just keep it like a secret to those folks using it. and be careful (/.\)
Author:  Vaelen [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Even all that information is actually stored locally and sent to your client -- otherwise you wouldn't be able to view it. GMs can probably see it by default.

Keston wrote:
But what is stopping them from integrating this detection client side, which send this info to the server? The update if i am not mistaken IS to the windows client?


They would probably need the source code just to know what type of information that's being sent through the client, and it would be pretty illegal for them to get the source code from him, because I think he has the program copyrighted (I could be wrong though).
Author:  Matti [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jimbean wrote:
Vaelen wrote:
Jimbean wrote:
all the player info is show in windows or in the game? Because if it works with like system alerts from the game then gms might be able to see that.. same way they can monitor chat logs and shit. But i really don't know, just that i know i read something on POL last night about windowers and them wanting to crack down.

i'm on ps2 -_-


While chat logs can still be saved your PC locally with the use of programs (don't think FF automatically logs for you), that information still has to go through the server. The Alt+Tab doesn't -- it's completely a client-side shortcut.


yeh i understand that totally, i was talking about how the new windower allows you to view everyone in your pts information (tp, hpp, mpp), being that i'm on ps I haven't tried the windower or even seen screenshots of it. I was saying how if the tp and shit is displayed somehow/someway in the game, then gms would mostly likely be able to see that? but if it's all ran on your desktop than that might be a different story. At any rate I agree that this biggest way to get caught is to run your mouth about it, so i would just keep it like a secret to those folks using it. and be careful (/.\)


All that info is stored in memory. It simply takes it out of memory and puts it into a usable format.
Author:  Jimbean [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
so there really is no way for them to detect it?
Author:  Matti [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can SE actually detect the Windower?

Again, Cliff is one of the developers so pay attention to his relpies. lol
Author:  Keston is a Douche [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vaelen wrote:
Even all that information is actually stored locally and sent to your client -- otherwise you wouldn't be able to view it. GMs can probably see it by default.

Keston wrote:
But what is stopping them from integrating this detection client side, which send this info to the server? The update if i am not mistaken IS to the windows client?


They would probably need the source code just to know what type of information that's being sent through the client, and it would be pretty illegal for them to get the source code from him, because I think he has the program copyrighted (I could be wrong though).


Did the developer of the windower obtain the source code to make it? There are some pretty smart guys over at SE. Could they possible check through system events/calls if the windower is running/in-memory while the ffxi client is running?
Author:  Vaelen [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Keston wrote:
Vaelen wrote:
Even all that information is actually stored locally and sent to your client -- otherwise you wouldn't be able to view it. GMs can probably see it by default.

Keston wrote:
But what is stopping them from integrating this detection client side, which send this info to the server? The update if i am not mistaken IS to the windows client?


They would probably need the source code just to know what type of information that's being sent through the client, and it would be pretty illegal for them to get the source code from him, because I think he has the program copyrighted (I could be wrong though).


Did the developer of the windower obtain the source code to make it? There are some pretty smart guys over at SE. Could they possible check through system events/calls if the windower is running/in-memory while the ffxi client is running?


There'd be no way to do it like that, and windower is an original piece of software. Probably written with C++ -- there'd be no way SE could obtain the code unless it was put up for download publically.

They could always try and steal the code, but they'd probably have one hell of a lawsuit on their hands after that.
Author:  Keston is a Douche [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vaelen wrote:
There'd be no way to do it like that, and windower is an original piece of software. Probably written with C++ -- there'd be no way SE could obtain the code unless it was put up for download publically.


What I mean is, didnt the developer of the windower learn to read what ffxi client has in memory without the FFXI source code? Can they not do the same?
Author:  Thunderstomp [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
some guy in the archbell forums thread said that this player's account was in fact banned. i was thinking about trying this windower out, but now i dunno.
Author:  Valisk [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dont risk it TS. I know ppl are saying that there is no way a GM can detect it, but just play it safe and dont risk it.
Author:  Mythiras [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thunderstomp wrote:
some guy in the archbell forums thread said that this player's account was in fact banned. i was thinking about trying this windower out, but now i dunno.


if you dont talk about it, they will never know.
Author:  Vaelen [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Valisk wrote:
Dont risk it TS. I know ppl are saying that there is no way a GM can detect it, but just play it safe and dont risk it.


I can 100% guarantee you it's impossible for them to detect it.


Keston wrote:
What I mean is, didnt the developer of the windower learn to read what ffxi client has in memory without the FFXI source code? Can they not do the same?


He didn't need to view FFXI's source code to create the windower. All he really needed to know was how to change the way to computer interprets two keys being pressed at the same time. For the other features, all he really had to do was find out where the values were stored in the computer -- you can do all that without needing source code.
Author:  Ketrebu [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it alters the DLL, it is easily detectable...

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to perform a CRC on a file to check if it has been altered or not.
Author:  Runefury [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
On top of that you can't take any SS or record any vids while using it or some ass might report you. T_T
Author:  Parade [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
fuck this shit, lol my windower stopped working anyways.
Author:  Pirato [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
If SE claims that can detect packet sniffers while they're in use, I wouldn't be suprised of they can detect windowers while in use.
Author:  Whisp [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warning for archbell windower users:
Pirato wrote:
Source: Killvoid
Quote:
Image
Image

I advice everyone who uses it to uninstall it, I know it's ridiculous that they forbid this program but it looks like they're getting serious this time


i bet SE setup that whole conversation to try to reduce # of 3rd party program users
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