Yarr The Pirate! :: View topic - Official Dragoon Fix Thread! (SE stole my ideas!)

In the next version update, major changes are scheduled for the dragoon two-hour ability.

The development team does not consider the dragoon to be particularly weak when compared to other jobs, but we are aware that a large part of a dragoon's strength depends on the presence of his or her wyvern. After taking into account the wyvern's tendency to be quickly defeated in heated battles, and the dragoon's lack of a powerful special ability for use in missions and other critical situations, it was decided that improvements were necessary.

Simply raising the wyvern's HP and defense to increase its survivability would cause balance issues in other parts of the game. However, it was judged that improving the dragoon's two-hour ability would have less of an impact on overall balance, and so the following changes have been planned for the upcoming version update:

-New two-hour ability
The dragoon will be imbued with the strength of his or her wyvern for a fixed length of time, increasing the dragoon's power and adding special effects to "Jump" abilities.

-Call Wyvern
The recast time for this ability will be reduced to twenty minutes. This ability will only be available when the main job is set to dragoon.

-Wyvern
Wyverns will now have the equivalent of the job trait "Subtle Blow," reducing the amount of TP gained by opponents from the wyvern's attacks.

More details will be announced at the time of the version update.

FINAL FANTASY XI Development Team (11/22/2005)

Author:	Havok [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:50 am ]
Post subject:	Official Dragoon Fix Thread! (SE stole my ideas!)
Quote: In the next version update, major changes are scheduled for the dragoon two-hour ability. The development team does not consider the dragoon to be particularly weak when compared to other jobs, but we are aware that a large part of a dragoon's strength depends on the presence of his or her wyvern. After taking into account the wyvern's tendency to be quickly defeated in heated battles, and the dragoon's lack of a powerful special ability for use in missions and other critical situations, it was decided that improvements were necessary. Simply raising the wyvern's HP and defense to increase its survivability would cause balance issues in other parts of the game. However, it was judged that improving the dragoon's two-hour ability would have less of an impact on overall balance, and so the following changes have been planned for the upcoming version update: -New two-hour ability The dragoon will be imbued with the strength of his or her wyvern for a fixed length of time, increasing the dragoon's power and adding special effects to "Jump" abilities. -Call Wyvern The recast time for this ability will be reduced to twenty minutes. This ability will only be available when the main job is set to dragoon. -Wyvern Wyverns will now have the equivalent of the job trait "Subtle Blow," reducing the amount of TP gained by opponents from the wyvern's attacks. More details will be announced at the time of the version update. FINAL FANTASY XI Development Team (11/22/2005) http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/information/1122.html seriously...i had almost the exact same ideas so long ago. oh and... $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$

Author:	Pantherxx [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:10 am ]
Post subject:
hmm is that making DRG better this time? or what?

Author:	Runefury [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:22 am ]
Post subject:
Pantherxx wrote: hmm is that making DRG better this time? or what? The only way SE can do that is by removing every other job in the game. On a side not though, Spirit link is completely retarded. Dragoon's should be able to heal their Wyverns via pet food or items.

Author:	Ketrebu [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:36 am ]
Post subject:
As a Paladin I can tell you that out of all of the beastmen types, Dragoons hit the hardest by a huge percentage. From what I know about the class, their Lances have pretty much the highest DMG rating out of most if not all weapons. So when you factor their Wyvern into the equation, they easily have a DoT that rivals WAR and stuff. The problem is that Dragoons don't really have any big killer Weapon Skills. They get Penta Thrust at an early level, so from around level 40-60 they are awesome DD. But around and after level 60, other job classes get all of their awesome Weaponskills like Steel Cyclone, Spiral Hell, Sidewinder, etc. By the higher levels, Penta Thrust's damage multiplier is way too low to compete with those, because it was intended for low level usage. What Dragoons need is a new weaponskill. But I'm sure a new 2-hour could prove interesting too. I wonder what added effects on jumps they could mean. Extra damage? Perhaps allows you to jump multiple times in quick succession? Who knows. (Listening to Kioko moan all day makes me a total expert on the subject. :P)

Author:	Runefury [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:50 am ]
Post subject:
To tell you the truth I think Dragoon's main flaw is the Job's lack of DD type job abilities. For example, wars have zerk/cry, rng have barrage, nin's have +dual wield, and etc. The list is even longer when you look at passive dd type traits. Dragoon, unlike other DD type jobs, relies heavly on it's subjob to deal damg rather then enhancing it. Anyway, this new update looks promising but I'm sure other jobs will be getting something nifty as well to offset this. We're just going to have to wait and see... maybe us poor bst will get something hoho

Yarr The Pirate! https://w.yarrthepirate.com/phpbb3/

Official Dragoon Fix Thread! (SE stole my ideas!) https://w.yarrthepirate.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7409	Page 1 of 5

Author:	Tilo [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:55 am ]
Post subject:
I'd like to see some sort of passive job ability given to DRKs for 2 handed weapon TP gain, while not quite like double attack/dual wield/zanshin, something with the same goals in mind (which would be a chance at more TP in some form or another). Maybe an enhancement to Last Resort to make it suck less, or extend Blood Weapon time to as long as Souleater lasts if only for a few more seconds. DRK can do some sick damage, but their TP gain and aggro-producing job abilities make them lacking as well.

Author:	Ilm [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:56 am ]
Post subject:
Jump = DW haste for 2h weapons heh.

Author:	Runefury [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:57 am ]
Post subject:
Ketrebu wrote: (Listening to Kioko moan all day...) Teach me how you get her to do this all day Ket!

Author:	Ketrebu [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:37 am ]
Post subject:
Jeez, I can't say anything around you Rune, lol. I don't mind at all really, lol, I'm just kidding. I like when I see people put some real thought and effort into their job and how it works. I really hate people who just level the "best" jobs like a follower so they can just leech off of some kind of imbalance. That's not to say every WAR or RNG or MNK etc are like that, but the majority who levelled those kind of jobs did so just because they'd be inherently stronger with less effort. It's obvious people do this; watching how many not-yet-75 Rangers quit levelling once the "nerf" hit just goes to show it.

Author:	Kaylia [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:52 am ]
Post subject:
Awesome, DRG is going to break the game now. People really need to stfu at time, cause DRG werent weak at all.

Author:	Kwechi [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:57 am ]
Post subject:
Now drg isnt useless on Dynamis Lord $\:D/$

Author:	Runefury [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:58 am ]
Post subject:
What's funny is Drgs are the ones that cry the most about their job not others... that's why SE finally gave them something. Gonna go cry about giving bst choco jugs and nerfing wars grade in multi weapon usage.

Author:	Arnwulf [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:08 am ]
Post subject:
I was one of the ppl that thought DRG was broken, but that was before I actually played the job. Now that I'm level 55 DRG, we are a very powerful class, we have our weaknesses just like other melees, but I'd put DRG right up there with WAR and DRK for damage. I can consistently out TP almost every other melee job, without a lot of +acc gear. Lowering the recast on the wyvern is a godsend though, now we won't be afraid to fight goblins lol.

Author:	Runefury [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:12 am ]
Post subject:
-lol Just kidding Don't click on the link lol Slightly to the left Cyris ;(

Author:	Mikola [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Arnwulf wrote: PLD is the most broken job in the game right now. I so agree, I was in a party on my NIN on saturday, Kados was the BLM and he said he feels sorry for PLDs endgame, HE'S A DRG!!!!! PLD are basically not allowed to sub anything except WAR, we can't deal damage, we just are kicked around. The best party I've had for exp on PLD in the past month was at ullik camp, PLD NIN RNG BLM RDM SMN, I'd tank 3-4 statues and then heal MP while the NIN would tank one(he'd DD while I tanked)

Page 1 of 5	All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Kioko [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:28 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: The only way SE can do that is by removing every other job in the game. On a side not though, Spirit link is completely retarded. Dragoon's should be able to heal their Wyverns via pet food or items. Nah spirit link is pretty handy, I like it just the way it is. Especially if you sub mage job you can spirit link, healing breath and be up to near full health again afterwards. I'd rather it be a job abilty than something I have to throw money at. Note: having stone skin on reduces the amount of hp taken from dragoon while wyvern gets full amount. And the new af+1 reduces the hp taken from dragoon by 100-200 hp. Put the two together and its really nice. Only retard dragoons are hindered by spirit link. :p Quote: (Listening to Kioko moan all day makes me a total expert on the subject. :P) Erm yeah that didn't sound quite right. hahah. [exit stage left] Anyho, no dragoon isn't weak. But I do heavily agree that lance weapon skills need to be completely tossed and revamped. A lot of lance weapon skills dont make sense compaired to other weapon skills of melee types. Unless you've played with lances for a long time its hard to see how idiotic they are. But something is wrong when you're still using your first obtained ws through the mid 60's. :/ And yeah drg doesn' thave a lot of DD job abilities because drg was left open to the player. Instead having altered abilities dependant on your sub job and your wyvern. IE: drg can be a tank of sorts subbed ninja and his wyvern will cure him when he uses ninjustsu. Or the drg can be a healer and sub whm and the wyvern will cure pt members for a substantial amout as well as remove basic status ailments. Sub war and with the right equip your wyvern will increase in power and double attack, allowing for more damage overall. The problem doesn't lie within the lack of job abilities and traits as it does equip. Every other melee gets tons upon tons of status boosting equip, where dragoon gets almost nothing. And what we do get is so diluted or comes with a catch. The closest thing to melee gear drg gets is hecatomb set and we all know how much that suchs because of the slow + 1 handed weapon. Would be nice if SE made more "choice" gear for drg. IE: give us equal melee stat gear to that of sam, thf, drk, rng, etc. Then give us gear that leans more toward drg's alternatives like healer. Last patch kinda did a little, although I'd like to see a few more additions to drg as a DD. And yeah drg isn't weak and no the drg community doesn't exactly whine about our design too much. What we do whine about is the fact that drg is nearly non existant in end game. I'd say a good 92% of all 75 drg's on this server only play in hnmls has an alternate job. Or play an alternate job the vast majority of the time. The simple fact is that SE is slow to return equalized stats to drg as they are other melee and its hard for drg to keep up. This gives the job class a bad player perception, and other people refuse to allow drg to play in their party as they'd rather have any other given class be there. Even if without logical reason. The only way really a drg is able to play endgame at all is if its their only 75 job, and very few people will say otherwise. :/ This bothers me a lot. As drg, yeah could use some tweaking, but mostly I'd just like to have a point in time when being on drg is actually prefered or beneficial. And until that time comes through changes in the system, the job class is essentially "broken" as far as other players are concerned. I really wonder now with this how the previous dismiss change will effect. I guess drg's can't trick their 2 hour like in the past anymore. Boo. but if call wyvern is only 20 mins I suppose it doesn't matter really. The combine wyvern + drg 2 hour thingy really is very forum-esque. But oh well. heehee Either way its exciting.

Author:	Yarr [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:31 am ]
Post subject:
Ive been saying this for a long time too. Although I think every dragoon has been saying it forever. The 2h for dragoon was retarded. All other 2h's are moves that are done in desperation. The dragoon 2h was the only 2h that was used before fighting and was the only 2h that the job totally depended on. I think the main reason Dragoons got a bad rep was because the pet was always dead and that damage the pet does should be calculated into the total dragoon damage. I dont think these fixes make the dragoon "Fixed" I think its a step in the right direction. Like ket said, Dragoons need a better Weapon Skill for higher levels.

Author:	Kioko [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:53 am ]
Post subject:
Wyvern wasn't really made to be a desperation act, but we did have the only 2 hour that could last for days, even weeks. While everyone else's lasted a few seconds. Wyverns dont really die in normal conditions (unless you're a mook) but its end game bosses and newer, harder mobs that love AOE that makes wyvern almost non existant at times. The problem kinda lies in the strain it takes to keep a wyvern alive durring these hard battles. If they're not already 1-shotted, drg has to sacrafice a lot of gear and time to wyvenr buffs and he loses out on essential buffs to his or herself. Thus handicapping the drg, for a ability (wyvern) that they should have anyway. SE could have, and they allude to this, just mega buff wyvern like it shoudl have, but then they'd have to make it almost invincible in normal conditions which makes the job too easy. So instead lowering the timer and making it a job ability not a 2 hour seems like a reasonable middle ground (and kinda the easy way out in their case lol). Drg did have one emergency ability though and that was super jump. If you're smart you can get away from most things using it in combination with your wyvern. Although its a {run away!} tactic and kinda useless in instanced battles. Quote: I think the main reason Dragoons got a bad rep was because the pet was always dead and that damage the pet does should be calculated into the total dragoon damage. I'm not certain if I read the last part right so correct me if i misinterpruted. Wyvern has its own embodiment (and thus dmg) for a very particular reason. And that reason is the hate list. The concept of dragoon as a DD is to have 0 hate, so drg's over all dmg and wyvern adding to that is over all good DOT but also its split hate gain. So that you can get away with doing 300 dmg per hit between the two of you and never turn the mob since some of that is on your hate listing and some of that is on your wyvern's hate listing. Drg's jumps shed any hate he built up in increments. So between the two of you its trying to output as much dmg while trying to stay as low on the hate list as possible. Drg can shift hate at will between he and his wyvern if they pay close attention to how hate is being built. I wonder sometimes if SE is slow to melee buff drg because of this hate relationship with his wyvern. If you give the drg too much attacking power it overrides the balance with the wyvern's output and a lot of these little tricks don't work. You can't really share a buff either and that also unbalances it. You'd need some dual buffing equip like "Str +12 Wyvern: str +12. But SE will never do that. haha.

Author:	Earlik [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:39 am ]
Post subject:
Tilo Lets go get Roc!!!!!!!

Author:	Valisk [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:28 am ]
Post subject:
Ketrebu wrote: I like when I see people put some real thought and effort into their job and how it works. LIES! I put a lot of thought into PLD and HQ equip and all you do is laugh at me and bash me for wanting 2 more DEF or 1 more VIT. Ket only likes it when girls put effort into their jobs/equip... /sigh

Author:	Ketrebu [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:38 am ]
Post subject:
That's because spending 20-30 million gil on 1 VIT isn't effort or knowing how your job works, it's just having too much money and being stupid with how you spend it, lol. (Gilbuyer omg) :P

Author:	Valisk [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:46 am ]
Post subject:
Well most my HQ junk was crafted with my materials and I just got lucky in the process. So its not like I overpaid for anything (except Kaiser Hands /sigh).

Author:	Mikola [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:
I agree, putting thought into your job and how it works is the key difference between players. I'm glad SE is finally helping DRGs in a way that it'll recruit more of them. heck, I might consider leveling DRG again to atleast 30 after this. I got it to like 8 before my wyvern died and had another hour on the 2hr timer, so I went and changed jobs to go exp. I really enjoyed how DRG felt and handled, even if it was only 8 levels Now what would be interesting to see is them adjusting PLD so it's more capable of dealing damage since nobody wants us to tank in parties anymore endgame.

Author:	Arnwulf [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:
PLD is the most broken job in the game right now.