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Darksoul
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:15 pm 
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yea.. they are up but fuked up.. mesa thinks patch has a virus

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Ketrebu
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:21 pm 
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I just read the patch change list..

They like... removed everything a Paladin has, lol. I hope they intend to reimburse the 100s of Silver I had to spend on all those Abilities they got rid of.... :?

And they got rid of Holy Strike... Good bye soloing ability. :?

(Paladin soloing is basically a matter of hitting for like 20 dmg a time, followed by a 60-70 Holy Strike every 10-15 seconds or so.)
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Darksoul
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:24 pm 
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they gave plds a buncha crap but no one knows what they are.. just the names. They took away the pld abilities that let them have decent dmg which is understandable.

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squintz
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:26 pm 
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If i could find somewhere to dl this game i'd be a pld lol.

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Peejo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:54 pm 
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Open beta starts tomorrow. If you want to be a tank, it's going to be warrior, not pld. Warrior will be the ultimate tank at the end, PLD is more of a hybrid class.
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Darksoul
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:59 pm 
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Peejo wrote:
Open beta starts tomorrow. If you want to be a tank, it's going to be warrior, not pld. Warrior will be the ultimate tank at the end, PLD is more of a hybrid class.


take that and switch the jobs around and you've got it.. war is dmg dealer, second hand tank
pld is tank

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Peejo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:05 pm 
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Darksoul wrote:
Peejo wrote:
Open beta starts tomorrow. If you want to be a tank, it's going to be warrior, not pld. Warrior will be the ultimate tank at the end, PLD is more of a hybrid class.


take that and switch the jobs around and you've got it.. war is dmg dealer, second hand tank
pld is tank


Hi, have you play a lvl 60 warrior in WOW? There's no dmg warrior in WOW. They are tanks, just like the pld in FFXI. I got this info from my friend who's been playing beta since the first day. Maybe he's bsing me but that's pretty much what everyone's been telling me. If you want to be a tank, be a WARRIOR.
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Darksoul
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:08 pm 
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patches... theyve fixed all that.. they have prety much removed all of pld's offenseive moves and given them defensive moves. war lost alot of hate control/defensive moves and were always one of the best dmg dealers in game. You've just gotem mixed up im sure. War has all the hybrid stances and dmg moves. pld have all the d stats and defensive moves and from what i heard and have seen in stress, its this way.

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Peejo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:09 pm 
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It's also called "beta". It matters when the retail comes out, we shall see. Before tonight's patch, warrior has been the ultimate tank.
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Darksoul
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:11 pm 
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ok... im just confused where you get ur info. I've never heard anything about war being tanks over plds. but you're right we shall see...

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Ketrebu
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:18 pm 
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Plds in wow tank perfectly fine when they are played correctly, as do warriors, they just go about it differently. Of course, Blizzard just completely took out the Pld class and put a new one in called Pld that nobody knows about, lol.

The problem was that Wars could handle aggro on multiple mobs at once (very very common to be fighting 2-3 mobs at once -- they are so grouped together for pulling its rediculous) and Plds could not.

But in the end, Plds in wow are a support class with the added ability to tank if needed. I think that sums it up best.
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Peejo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:40 pm 
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Quote:
Paladin
- Retribution Aura: Moved to level 16.
- Judgement: Moved to level 50, renamed Holy Wrath.
- Removed facing requirement from Hammer of Justice and Turn Undead.
- Cleanse: Moved to level 42, mana cost increased.
- Holy Light: Causes less threat, heal effect and mana cost increased.- Purify: Mana cost increased.
- Turn Undead: Increased the chance of breaking early.
- Holy Strike: Removed.
- Crusader Strike: Removed.
- Seal of Reckoning: Removed.
- Healing Aura: Removed.
- Dominance Aura: Removed.
- Wisdom Aura: Removed.
- Redemption: Removed.
- Resurrection: renamed Redemption, no longer useable in combat.
- **All Seals renamed Blessings. Several new spells have been added,
which now use the naming convention "Seal".
- New Spell: Seal of the Crusader (Level 12).
- New Spell: Seal of Justice (Level 22).
- New Spell: Seal of Light (Level 30).
- New Spell: Seal of Wisdom (Level 3 .
- New Spell: Flash of Light (Level 20).
- New Spell: Judgement (Level 10).
- New Spell: Blessing of Might (Level .
- New Spell: Blessing of Wisdom (Level 14).
- New Spell: Blessing of Light (Level 40).
- New Spell: Concentration Aura (Level 22).
- New Spell: Divine Intervention (Level 30).
- Resistance Aura: Split up into 3 new spells...Shadow Resistance Aura
(Level 28 , Frost Resistance Aura (Level 32), and Fire Resistance Aura
(Level 36).
- Seal of Fury has changed significantly.
- Seal of Righteousness has changed significantly.
- Blessing of Sacrifice: Moved to level 46, now transfers a flat amount
of damage per hit, and has replacements.
- Blessing of Salvation: Moved to level 26, duration increased, cooldown
removed, effect reduced.
- Blessing of Freedom: Moved to level 18.
- Blessing of Protection: Moved to level 10.


According to today's patch, I only see how their heal cause less agro, but I don't see they give plds new tools to hold agro.
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Thunderstomp
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:01 pm 
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Yeah Blizzard is seriously messing with what it means to be a Paladin. Paladins in WoW are looking more and more like FFXI bards.
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Ketrebu
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:04 pm 
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I remember them saying they intended to "fix" aggro with this patch, and that Talents would NOT be how they fixed it (It wouldn't be fair to force players to go with certain talents to make their job viable at all).

You're right though, unless some of those new unknown spells do something very very good. Paladins got completely nerfed into a support role only. (That's all they ever were in Warcraft 3 really, but meh. :P)

I was able to hold some decent hate if I opened a fight with a swift Crusader Strike followed almost immediately with a Holy Strike, but it wasn't easy, and now both of those abilities are gone too, lol.

WoW Paladin = FFXI Bard :P

All they have left are single target seals, like which increase stats for one member, or increase mana regen and stuff, and AoE auras with party-wide stat boosts. They really are just a Bard now, lol.
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Kailyn
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:12 pm 
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Peejo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:14 pm 
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If you've played EQ, pld in WOW is actually pretty much like the pld in EQ. They can tank but they aren't THE tank.

Allakhazam has all of the new spells information if you want to see the details. But most of them are just buffs or shortern dmg reduce. Nothing increase their hate ability. I am sure Ket knows how important hate is for a tank :lol:
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Dinav
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:17 pm 
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It makes sense that they are bardish...they are supposed to lead battles pretty much. Thus they make them a melee class that can make everyone else stronger and they have high def. They become a PvP target and can take hits, fight, and make their army stronger.

Not *that* bad...but could be cooler.

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Reinheld
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:23 pm 
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It still seems like a fun looking class to me. ^^;
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Ponuh
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:23 pm 
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Peejo wrote:
If you've played EQ, pld in WOW is actually pretty much like the pld in EQ. They can tank but they aren't THE tank.

Allakhazam has all of the new spells information if you want to see the details. But most of them are just buffs or shortern dmg reduce. Nothing increase their hate ability. I am sure Ket knows how important hate is for a tank :lol:


Yeah here's how I look at it..

For the 3 MMOs i've played EQ, FFXI, WoW, PLD was one way, and for the other, it was different. FFXI has the "Unusual Paladin."

PLD was literally a cleric/warrior hybrid in EQ, and in WoW it seems to be just that.

So expect it to not be a tank, as FFXI and WoW are different as different can be.
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Darksoul
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:23 pm 
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plds have the best defense and everything else to make a pld a good tank
war have hate control which pld dont, so it makes them better tanks

war are better tanks for this but plds would eb better tanks if they had hate control which is what blizzard is trying to do. but this last patch was just messed up.

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Peejo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:34 pm 
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Warrior will always be the ultimate tank in WOW just like PLD is the ultimate tank in FFXI until the day PLD in WOW gets taunt.

Your mages, your priests will die without taunt/ae taunt. From I've heard, most of the time in instance you'll have multiple mobs incoming. Without taunt, pld just can't be an efficient tank.

WoW classes

Quote:
Upholders of the Holy Light and defenders of the Alliance, the Paladins can be found from the northern forests of the Tirisfal Glades, fighting back the advance of the Forsaken, to the southern reaches of the Blasted Lands, ceaselessly upholding their vigil against demonic forces from beyond the Dark Portal. Wielding their mighty hammers and the strength of the Light, these holy warriors command forces in battle, continuously throwing themselves into the fray wherever the fighting is the thickest.

The Paladin is a mix of a melee fighter and a secondary spell caster. The Paladin is ideal for groups due to the Paladin's healing, Seals, and other abilities. Paladins can have one active aura per Paladin on each party member and use specific Seals for specific players. Paladins are pretty hard to kill, thanks to their assortment of defensive abilities. The Paladin can also heal with Holy Light, unlike other combat classes. The Paladin is an Undead specific fighter as well, with several abilities designed to be used against the Undead.


Quote:
Warriors are the melee-centered class. These characters are tough as nails and masters of weaponry and tactics. The special abilities of the Warrior are naturally combat-oriented. The Warrior is the ultimate toe-to-toe fighter with the most options available to him. Unlike other Warriors you might have played in other games, the Warrior of World of Warcraft has many different options and abilities to use during combat.


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Thunderstomp
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:38 pm 
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So currently warriors are better dmg dealers and better tanks, and paladins are more of a hybrid tank/buffer/healer job that can do light tanking but can't hold aggro well. I'll still give paladin a try, because it seems like the new patch added some versitility. It would make alot of sense if Blizzard gave paladins a taunt ability of their own, though.
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Reinheld
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:28 am 
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I love you Peejo.
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Vurin
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:26 am 
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Paladins sound like Bard/whm with a dash of extra melee thrown in =P
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Thunderstomp
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:26 am 
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This looks scary...

http://www.wowguru.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=80&pos=1

This is inside an instance dungeon. If you look beyond the two huge fire beasts, you can see there are more coming.

:shock:
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