that doesn't make it sad. that makes you "carpe diem." cherish every single day.

we are just highly organized conglomerations of atoms
with neurons that have five quadrillion connections
these make up our thoughts, opinions, memory, personality
life just keeps moving on because it has developed out of necessity a very successful reproduction mechanism

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

Currently reading the God Delusion. It's definitely ignited a more passionate anti-religion viewpoint in me.

I feel the same sort of way actually besides the fact that I slip in and out of pure misanthropy on bad days, haha

If your looking for something spiritual then believe in humanity so that maybe we won't kill each other off within the next millennium.

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Retired 8/21/06
Don't click this link.

Well wether or not theres a higher "intelligent being who was just 'there' " as dawkins puts it, dont you guys think it would be just so sad to not even have your consiousness live on after you die? I mean Life is so short, I don't know what I would do if someone told me for 100% sure fact that life completely ends when you die on earth, I would get severely scared as hell lol

I am very intruiged by what he said about the intelligent beings on other planets who might be as powerful and advanced as we today might think God would be, but that these beings have 1 thing different from a christian god- that they evolved from small to big, started out small organisms and evolved to what they were. God was simply just always there, wich is indeed a much . . . harder to believe. . . argument? lol

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No sig because 3 sigs in a row people make me change my sig and I refuse to have a pony sig!

as i see it, it's a proven fact that personality and memory, or "who we are," is a product of the brain. when the brain no longer has blood (CSF) supply, it dies (we die). i wouldn't say it's sad. it's just coming to terms with what we are. one could argue there is something more to "who we are" than the brain, but there is no scientific reason to believe so, while there is piles of evidence to show the brain's role. at the very least it makes me try to live life to the fullest, knowing that i don't have infinite time to procrastinate.

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

On that note then, what if one day we discovered a way to keep our brains alive forever? I wonder how earth would deal with overpopulation.
Because eventually if everyone believes that the brain indeed does just die along with your consciousness, then I'm pretty sure man kind is going to get greedy and ofcourse want to live forever

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No sig because 3 sigs in a row people make me change my sig and I refuse to have a pony sig!

yea..
it looks like the lady in your sig figured it out

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

lol I love her shes hilarious

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No sig because 3 sigs in a row people make me change my sig and I refuse to have a pony sig!

That's EXACTLY the point. Religion permiates our culture because it's so very, very comforting. I'm happy for those people who can actually accept the superstition and believe that life never ends. But to me, it simply defies all logic and is obviously untrue. (well those last few sentences were my sentiments BEFORE becoming "in-Dawktrinated" Hhahahahhahaha)

Given infinity you might be the exact same person some day, but Earth as we know it will probably be gone by a few quintillion years. If there's math to everything I suppose the same sort of order could pop up again, but I wouldn't worry about it since you probably won't be able to think or care much when you're dead.

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Retired 8/21/06
Don't click this link.

Hey.

To Whisp: Even if we do know that our personalities are products of synapses and brain cells and whatever, experiences, how does that disprove god? The way they work, the reason they are there at all, does Science address that?

And to Ponuh: How is it more logical that we are alive by chance? The idea that our entire universe "just happened" seems just as farfetched to me as the idea of something ultimate and divine creating it. Where's the logic in your argument?

someone explain gravity to me.

Because itself is probably the biggest evidence in anything divine out there!


Ohh snap 30,000 consoles just sold a moment ago hahaha

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Job 10: 20
The mikey's have a plan. Djay isn't all powerful.

Nothing can disprove god, that's why religion has survived. God is a belief with no tangible source.

The point is that we should study the things in life that have a real source.

I would agree with that

the way they work is that incoming sensory information is translated into a wave of ionic propogation, be it from the outside world or from another neuron. the neuron is either off or on, like a 0 or 1 in computer science. but also the duration of the pulse plays a role in whether or not the next neuron is turned off or on.

questions like how is a memory stored...or how does the total accumulation of offs and ons translate to a thought...we don't know yet. but we do know that the brain plays a definite physical role in these concepts because tampering with parts of the brain systematically alters these traits.

does it rule out god? no.
as long as the "spiritual" remains separate from science and the physical world, it will be impossible to ever rule out. i applaud the human brain that delves into the theoretical, as long as that brain remembers it is only theoretical philosophy, and as long as that brain's intentions isn't to copycat its society.

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

Actually it's the WORST evidence because everyone believes it. Unless you're retarded. Everyone SHOULD believe evolution as well, but because children are forcefully indoctrinated with religious dogma immediately after birth (without choice) it becomes ingrained that there is room for debate in the matter. Personally I find that unacceptable.

gravitational force of physics and electromagnetic force of chemistry are as close to gods as i can think of. but i wouldn't dare attach humanlike consciousness to them. consciousness has just been a byproduct of electromagnetic forces shaping organic molecules into forms of ever-increasing complexity.

so i wouldn't like go to a church to pray to these forces because they won't hear my prayers

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

If there's one thing that pisses me off most, it's how "people of faith" have attacked the Big Bang as the proof of divine existence. Science can trace the Big Bang to 1 trillionth of a second before the beginning, but that first catalyst is unexplainable (at this time and probably forever). Just because there is no evidence of something that happened (it did happen, the red shift proves it) billions of years ago (and yes, the universe is a billion years old) that doesn't mean there ISN'T evidence of a natural cause and reason to nearly everything else. Religion was the earliest form of science; in isolation the Mayans and the Assyrians and everyone all needed a reason for why the Sun rose, and at that time with their technology God was the only answer. Now true science (using the scientific method to continually attempt to disprove itself) has slowly but surely brought forth the evidence to counter nearly every religious explanation. But religion has fought back, and it's simple too massive to ever move against. If you forcefully teach a child when he or she is 3 years old that if they don't live their lives well they're going to burn forever in Hell, and they believe that superstition their whole lives, it would naturally be very difficult to argue any other way with a person. Thus religion lives on.

Well i think it's been said a lot in these religious discussions that we've all been a part of before.

But yeah, I'm a christian, and I can say there are plenty of dumb christians. I don't think I'm one of them. My girlfriend and I are having a discussion right now about Calvinism since her family are all Calvinists. I don't know a whole lot about it but they beleive in predestination almost, and that there are certain people on this earth who are the "elect" that will choose to follow God, and nothing can change that.

Backed by scripture? Well maybe, you can make the bible say what you want to say if you take things out on context, which is what 80% of christians do. I'm a christian, I believe in Christ, and he was all about acceptance and truth regardless of what people believed. And that's kind of the bottom line for me.

Anyways, Whisp's science knowledge astounds me, and that's awesome. But for me all of that stuff just glorfies God.

Something interesting I've been learning during this semester at college is how many philosophers, the greatest thinkers of the world, scientists and philosophers, believed in a divine being. Not only that, but the "truths" that these philosophers come to almost always coincide with what Jesus teaches in the bible. Stuff like: Don't be an asshole, don't use people, be trustworthy, be humble, search for truth, etc etc.

Just a thought

We will all know for ourselves the real truth once we die. Well if there is no afterlife or god, then you won't know shit. You will just be worm food. If there is an afterlife you will have no way to communicate with the living to tell them the truth about the afterlife either. The way you live your life is you placing bets on which side is right. The odds are against religion of course, by a enormous margin. With most religions you can't really "hedge" your bets and have your cake and eat it too.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
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Or you can be an asshole all your life, feed on the hurting of others, lie, cheat steal, only to get what you want for your own benefit. It's really easy to be mean and do whatever you want, it takes a stand-up human being to be nice and follow the rules. And if there IS an afterlife, and if it's the one talked about in the bible, then you can either spend all of eternity in complete bliss with God, or burn in eternal hellfire with satan.

But you're right, it is a gamble. There are tons of religions out there, but I think the consequences are much more dire than "Well, you're right or you're wrong."

Sorry if my opinion come off as judgemental, I don't mean them that way, I'm just trying to share my viewpoints, feel free to prove me wrong.

The problem is you aren't going to be perfect, even with salvation people sin afterwards. You would basically have to get saved on your deathbed so you wouldn't have enough time to sin before you die lol. It only takes one unrepented sin to go to hell. When you repent you turn from the sin and never commit it again of course. That doesn't usually happen the first time.

You could easily repent of all your sins, get baptized or whatever and then only sin once afterwards and never repent of it. You would go to hell.

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With so many religions all staking out a bit of property and vying to be the establishment sponsoring your salvation, plus the inconceivably far-fetched nature of religion, I'd err on the side of science, simply because of evidence. Denchi, you were probably born into a Christian household. Christianity is formed in the basis of your conscience, which is probably why you have a hard time accepting the overwhelming evidence that runs contrary to your religion.

I, too, am not trying to be judgmental.

Well that's a Catholic viewpoint Eternus. I'm a protestant, and I actually know very few Catholics. Protestants don't believe that you need to be sinless to go to Heaven. It's actually quite simple, believe in Jesus, and do your best to abide by his teachings.

And Ponuh, yeah everyone is born into a certain set of beliefs, and that's why it's so hard. But going into college I was still really skeptical. I was born into a christian household, and I called myself a christian, but my parents weren't hardcore christians or anything. My brother and I routinely skipped church because we wanted to play videogames and we thought churchies were lame. Hell I still think a lot of churchies are lame, but looking back I don't think I was a christian when I was a kid or in high school. in college I got a whole different perspective, and I've studied other religions, with an open mind (or as open as I could get it).

I dunno, it's easy to see why religion is ridiculous. None of my friends back home in MN are christian. They constantly ask me why I "Even bother with that christian cult shit." And I guess I can see their point, but after living with Christianity for a while and studying some scripture and talking with professors (Actually I jewish philosphy professor come to mind most) it just makes too much sense to me. Saying "Religion is stupid" just seems to me like such a cop-out. It's because no one wants to give up the "fun" things in life for some diety you don't even know exists. But after watching so many of my friends fill their lives with mindless drinking and partying and drugs they all come back to reality and realized that none of it made them happy. What makes them happy is helping other people, sacrificing themselves for someone else (Girlfriend or whatever).

But yeah, emo-shit. I guess my point is, although maybe good points you guys bring up, it's only a small peice of the pie that is life/religion. yeah maybe a persons upbrigning can alter one's view of religion, but that doesn't change religion. What you're talking about is an obstacle between a human and truth, not about truth itself, and simply stopping there is giving up. In my opinion... again...

I was raised in a Southern Baptist environment actually Dench and have only been to Catholic mass a total of 3 times lol. That is just what it says in the Bible. The Bible says that you have to repent of your sins to go to heaven. If a sin isn't repented then you aren't going to heaven lol... its damn simple. God doesn't forgive a sin unless you have repented of it, this much is certain from simply reading the Bible. You can't just get saved, then sin without repenting of that sin and think God already has you covered from your past repentace. Especially if you repented of a sin and you commit the same sin you just supposedly repented. Either you believe all of the Bible or none of it. Picking and choosing shit based on what is convenient to your lifestyle is cultist.

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75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs