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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:01 am 
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i wont bust ur bubble about this.
But you are better off looking at the site i posted abuve.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:45 am 
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Your not bursting my bubble Kioto. I didnt start the thread to be an ass about some theory I made up lol. I wanted and still want opinions on what people think.
As far as the site goes its very interesting and thanks for posting it.
As far as my theory goes im going to flush out some of the kinks in it but I still stick by it. I mean no one can really say its not right lol. ( I dont mean that how it sounds. Like a condescending way of im always right and you'll always be wrong).

After all no matter how many times to drop a ball to the ground who is to say it will always drop? Even gravity is a theory. That ball might one day shot skyward :wink:

One thing I love about science is that you can truly prove anything. There are always exceptions.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:49 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:54 am 
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Yea, everything that can't be solved by a formula will always be a therory bc to make something a law it has to be proven by mathematics. Thats why in biology nothing is a law bc biology can't be proven throug math.

Now back to absolute 0. Isn't the whole point scientist are trying to reach absolute 0 is to make a super magent ( or something like that. Its been two years since I took pyhsics). I mean at absolute zero wouldn't things start to levitate and ingnor gravity bc there would be no friction at all?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:28 am 
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Absolute zero has nothing to do with any concept of time I'm aware of. You seem to have a 'perspective' that they could relate, but physically speaking there is no negative on the Kelvin Scale. Even if you could reach absolute zero, the particles could only start moving again. Also time travel is physically impossible as studied by science thus far.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:02 am 
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I have explained this before Caduceus lol.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:32 am 
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errr actually i beleive that should you reach such a cold level time itself would not stop it would only effect those objects which are at the 0 degree temp.

This is who proposed methods of statis would opperate, being that the lower the temperate reaches the beeter the preservation becomes.

Its is also the method for proposed cryogenics.

Reaching of a negative value of Kelvin would not suggest a reversal of time, however it does suggest the reversal of times effects, should this be effects on a molecular or cellular level id say its a molecular level and thus not make you younger but maybe cure disease yes.

Now its it possible to actually bring some1 that has been 'frozen in time' back to the world, i dont think so, the brain dead activity would mess it all up, you would need a method to keep the brain alive and still firing with electrcity. (The Brain works very similar to RAM, you switch it off and your back to square one - or worse than that).

So to find a balence you could preserve a body and mind at say 10K and then apply the voltage to the brain needed to sustain it.

Once you begin defrezzing the body you then need a way to fire up allthe organs again, liver, heart, lungs etc you heart being the main one, now would this mean replacing the heart? or just jump starting it again.

Hopefully ive given you all something to think about :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:46 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:57 am 
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damnit i went and spent 3hrs reading up about cryonics >< damn you all now i need to go back in time and get those 3hrs back... however its an interesting concept to reqad about not sure id be able to do it i mean imagine waking up in 200years and not a) knowning anyone b) knowing wtf is going on around you c) having no money :p

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:17 am 
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Ragnar, there is alot more to what you tried explaining.

There are ways to revive someone from a frozen state.

But, it goes back to square one, to how the body was frozen in the first place.

If the freezing process took long, long enough to condence the cells or if it was an instant shock type of freeze, such example would be of how quick liquid nitrogen freezes a rose leaf.

The more 'intact' the body organism stays in the freezing process, the higher are the chances of going back to a live state.

Now since we already know that if Absolute 0 is ever reached, any additional -(minus) temperature would actually accelerate the molecules, therefore adding heat. The theory sais that IF absolute 0 is ever reached, the additional temperature after absolute 0 would have to be added in the thousands of a decimal to 'heat' the molecules.
Therefore they would have to be extemly accurate on the additional cold.

Its impossible to live under such temperatures (Below Absolute 0? We will never know, since we are adding cold, but the outcome is heat)

So for now, that theory is just a thought.

Though you are right about liver, heart, lungs. We all know what it takes to start up the heart again, (if the heart condition is 100% the same as before the freezing process)

The brain is alot more complex, our current knowledge about the brain is more or less likely to be 50%? up to 60% i believe, therefore we dont know full circumstances of actions directed to the brain itself.

Yes, the brain functions like ram, but it would be categorized as SRAM, not DRAM, DDR or any other kinda of ram that needs to be refreshed.

Though the brain should be frozen untill all budy fluids (mainly the blood) has been also unfrozen, so that it could flow to the brain & pick up from where it was left of before it was frozen. This, of course is only a Theory of how it should be done IF the plot of a human actually is used as a freezing test under Absolute 0 temp.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:18 pm 
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It can only reach absolute zero when Minnesota and Buffalo play against each ohter in the Super Bowl, because in order for one of those teams to win, Hell must freeze over.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:36 pm 
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actually Kioto your not quite right after my 3hrs reading on the subject of freezing people.

When put into 'cryo-statis' blood is drained and replaced by a metalic proto-blood ( i forget the actual name )

As for the brain only short term memory behaves like RAM, long term is actually fixed into the tissue but massive truma such as death can effect this long term memory in many random ways some people have been revived hours after dying and been absolutly fine only loosing the short term memory (around the previous 5days)

There is alot more on the subject anyhow, you could read for days about it but on the subject of anti-ageing they say -173 is the point where prevervation of all organs occurs, but you cannot reverse the age, however cloning in the future may prove to do this whereby you clone the person and transfer the brain across.

There timescale currently on reviving cryo-static people is 20-50 years however curing what they died of may take longer.

Not sure how i got onto this subject entirly now lol... gonna stop posting here ><

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:01 pm 
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Omg science!

/equip Head "Scientist Google"


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it would be safe to say that at negative Kelvin time moves backwards.



0 kelvin = atom have no kinitic energy
Now, tell me how it's logically possible to obtain a negative kinetic energy? Yarr pretty much said it, but no matter what you do, it will just do "normal" energy.

I would like to understand how the opposite of "energy" can become "backward time" too according to your theory. It's like saying: "We are made matter and go forward in time, therefore, something made of antimatter goes back in time". Which is totally wrong since both can exist.


Good news is that when i go to school and it's -40degree celcius outside, I'm pretty sure time is slowed

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:03 pm 
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Regnar wrote:
actually Kioto your not quite right after my 3hrs reading on the subject of freezing people.


I wonder when SA's weekend web is coming to this forum.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:16 pm 
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Also, there is no physical equation that allow something to go back in time. Many can slow it down (or stop it when you reach infinity), or speed it up, but none allow you to reverse time.
The only answer you will get from physical equation are imaginary number ( square root of -1) if the situation would bring you back in time. Try this one E= mc²/sqrt(1-v²/c²) , or any of the most recent one, the answer is always the same. Time traval: X



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:55 pm 
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obviously according to common theory, absolute zero is an impossible temp. to reach unless you're in a total and complete vacuum, such that is not even proven to exist in space. And say you find this vacuum ( you obviously can't be in it or it isn't a vacuum) the laws of physics as they apply to us on earth would no longer come in to play. Nothing says that going to negative temps on the kelvin scale wouldnt be possible in a vacuum i don't think

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:53 am 
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ok i sorta understood what you said (pls dont shoot me down im only 12) so ill put it in brief
0 kelvin = absolute zero everything stops at that point and since theres no friction theres no heat and we cant be revived from that state or something
to say that if you were to go past that and molucules & atoms would reverse then wouldnt the movement of those cause friction which causes heat.
And if absolute zero was achived wouldnt everything stop say they put it in a room on a table. the table freezes/stops then the room freezes/stops then the facility freezes/stops then the ground freezes/stops then the air freezes/stops etc. etc. because everything is connected so then the coldness would transfer i think :?
btw. is everyone here like a rocket scientist >.>


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:01 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:18 am 
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you guys make this shit way to complicated just follow these easy steps...

1) press and hold the "time" button on your clock
2) press the "hour" button until desired time is reached
3) go back to sleep with a piece of mind that you have plenty more time to rest

(disclaimer: this doesnt work so well when a job or school is involved)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:32 pm 
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Ok my view-
For starters, this is not a theory. It is your personal hypothesis. And your hypothesis is based on yet another hypothesis. Which is that is a temperature where all molecular motion stops. But you go further than that saying that at temperatures even lower, that molecular motion will start again in perfect molecular structure, but moving in reverse. Causing things to revert in some sense; be it time or mass.

Now we’ll get into this hypothesis and tackle the time travel portion of it say if the molecular motion at 557.6 degrees Kelvin (98.6 degrees Fahrenheit) is causing me to write this reply at this moment. It’s what made me light this cigarette. It governs all actions in space and time. So your negative hypothesis would have to imply that at negative 557.6 degrees Kelvin I would start to erase what I am typing at the same speed and repeat every action of my evening in reverse action. Leaving me in current time but moving in a reverse motion. Even at negative 1000 degrees Kelvin I would only be going roughly double the speed repeating my actions backwards. So I guess for your theory to work in this sense, one would have to lower the temperature of everything but oneself to exactly negative 557.6 degrees Kelvin, that it would take 6 months of your reality to get back in time to one year before you started the freeze. Or in other words, it would take one year and six months. That’s just an example if we could create all of these circumstances, and your hypothesis is in fact a law of physics.

Finally aging process reversal. Same principle as I just stated actually. But here inlays even more flaws. Lets start off by talking about what aging, or even illness actually is. It’s a serious of events so great on the molecular level that in most cases has changed you. You have lost molecules and gained molecules in that time. Now the reverse motion hypothesis fails here on this topic. Where exactly are these molecules you have lost coming from to re-enter into your molecular make up? You no longer have them in your body for that reverse process to re-integrate into your cellular structure. So I just can’t see how this is possible.

Which brings me to my closing of this rambling post, and back to my very first point. How are we even talking about hypothesis that has not one law of physics behind it? Lets prove absolute zero even exists first.

oh and... Xiona... i think you have cracked the mystery! I'm going to try that later today. A Nobel Prize might be in your future yet!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:15 pm 
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Quote:
Which brings me to my closing of this rambling post, and back to my very first point. How are we even talking about hypothesis that has not one law of physics behind it? Lets prove absolute zero even exists first.


Absolute zero "exist". Using it isn't a problem


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero

Quote:
Absolute zero is the lowest temperature that can be obtained in any macroscopic system. Absolute temperature means temperature measured on a scale with absolute zero as 0. This is conventionally measured in kelvins: absolute zero corresponds to 0 K (−273.15 °C or −459.67 °F).

An object's absolute temperature therefore describes how much warmer the object is than absolute zero. While temperature is a measure of the heat of an object, heat itself is simply a highly abstract consideration of the kinetic energy of the molecular particles of the object. At absolute zero, we have reached the baseline. The absolute temperature measures the movement among the particles of an object by comparing it to the state of an object at absolute zero.

Absolute zero was first calculated by using the Ideal gas law, and sometimes absolute zero is defined as the temperature at which an Ideal gas has no volume and exerts no pressure. The problem with this definition is that an ideal gas does not exist, as an ideal gas does not liquefy. All known gases will liquefy before attaining a temperature of 0 K.

According to kinetic theory there would be no movement of individual particles at absolute zero, and thus any material at this temperature would be solid. This has been proven false and it's better to describe absolute zero as the temperature where no further energy may be extracted. For the case of free atoms at temperatures approaching absolute zero, most of the energy is in the form of translational motion and the temperature can be measured in terms of the speed of this motion, with slower speeds corresponding to lower temperatures. In fact because of quantum mechanical effects, the speed at absolute zero is not precisely zero, but depends, as does the energy, on the size of space within which the atom is confined. At absolute zero the molecules and atoms in a system are all in the ground state (i.e., the lowest possible energy state) and the system has the least possible amount of kinetic energy allowed by the laws of physics. This minimum energy corresponds to the zero-point energy encountered in the quantum mechanical particle in a box problem. As mentioned above, the lowest possible energy is not necessarily zero energy, due to the ramifications of quantum theory.

It can be shown from the laws of thermodynamics that the temperature can never be exactly absolute zero; this is the same principle that ensures no system may be 100% efficient, although it is possible to achieve temperatures arbitrarily close to it. At very low temperatures in the vicinity of absolute zero, matter exhibits many unusual properties including superconductivity, superfluidity, and Bose-Einstein condensation. In order to study such phenomena, scientists have worked to obtain ever lower temperatures. As of 2004, the lowest temperature Bose-Einstein condensate achieved was 450 pK, or 4.5 × 10-10 K. This was performed by Wolfgang Ketterle and colleagues at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (A Leanhardt et al. 2003 Science 301 1513). [1] (http://physicsweb.org/article/news/7/9/8). The coldest temperature ever produced was 250 pK [2] (http://boojum.hut.fi/research/magnetism/zero.html) during an experiment on nuclear magnetic ordering in the Helsinki University of Technology's Low Temperature Lab.

The Boomerang nebula, with a temperature of 1 K, has recently been discovered to be the coldest place known outside a laboratory. The nebula is 5000 light-years from Earth and is in the constellation Centaurus. [3] (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/ ... 27695.html)

For some special systems and specific definitions of temperature, it is possible to obtain a negative temperature. A system with a negative temperature is not colder than absolute zero, but rather it is, in a sense, hotter than infinite temperature.
[/quote]

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:25 pm 
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Now do research on the opposing side. This is still concidered to be a hypothesis in the scientific field with years of battle going back and forth repeatedly using different laws to prove/disprove. When it's "law" then it's real. As of now, they have yet to use this method to stop all motion. even says it there

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:55 pm 
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There is no law disproving the absolute zero, eh, the one we have are even supporting it.

Quote:
As of now, they have yet to use this method to stop all motion. even says it there

Absolute zero isnt a law or a method, it's just one state of the matter at a certain temperature. It's like saying we should be able to go to the speed of light because we discovered it

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:02 pm 
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if K really made an impact on the flow of time it would be universal i think. like ok say this hypotesis is true, and if you go in negative K and time reverses. well wouldnt that mean time flow is based on temperature? if so would the more positive (hotter) the kelvin got would time speed up? seems to me it would, but maybe im a retard.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:04 pm 
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
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oh and i would think the only way to reach 0 kelvin would be to remove time from the equation. time is the only way to register any change or energy flow. if you take time away then nothing can move and therefore emits 0 energy.

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