It's impossible to be truly sinless. Some christians would argue mother theresa could have peeled the skin off her own back to make clothes for the people sho cared for, and because she didn't she failed her obligations to the ill of health.

it's all about personal interpretation. the scriptures are just words passed down, it's stupid to take them literally because one they are often metaphors trying to help people who lack the ability to understand philsophy get to grips with complicated ideas. Secondly I would assume if any of us were to read , say the book of Isiah now, it would be in English, translated from god knows (lol) how many different langugages from the original, if there even is one.

Things get confused from one language to another, this confusion always propogates through so where you might read "Isiah dug a hole" what he meant to say was " I found a chest of gold in a hole" or something, so taking it literally is really stupid, you have to look deeper and try to understand the gist of the story, and thats where people interpret it and some say gays are never christians, some say it doesn't matter.

Just my personal viewpoint on catholicism, often the old and new testament are at conflict with each other, but only a very small part of them came from "God", most of the new testament was written by St. Paul based on his interpretations of Jesus, so why should he be allowed to decide what the message is, but I can't?

edit : spelling and don't take the mother theresa thing too seriously, it was just an idea to illustrate a point. if you can understand why I said it the way I did then you have a good chance of understanding why people interpret the bible differently lol

_________________

You are so wrong eternus, the bible does not state that. On the contrary, the bible states we will always be sinners. The bible also sais you are only going to heaven if you accept the lord jesus as your only true saviour, and have your name written in the book of life. Sinning is part of being a faulty human. You must only have read a few chapters of the bible, because you are certainly misunderstood.

@ Mandos, i dont know much about the catholic bible, but the torah sais the man who wrote the scriptures were used by jesus/god/holy spirit to do so, and solely spoken and written what god wanted.

_________________

Not because of religion though. Religion helps as much as it hurts, what is the problem as we see it in conflicts and such is not that religion is the cause, human beings are the cause. Humans cant believe that someone with a different view point could be right. It's the same with homosexuals, you have a viewpoint that differs with other people. Wars dont break out over religions, wars break out over people thinking their religion is the best. You really think God or Jesus wants you to treat homosexuals poorly or talk down to them, you think he wants you to disrespect other's religions? Think about that before you judge people. That is what turns a lot of people off to religion. I refuse to go to a church or any type of organized religious service but I still have my beliefs.

_________________
http://ctprofiles.net/3208744

Man Kioto you really need to go back and read the ENTIRE Bible. Yes we are born with "original sin" and always will be sinners. Salvation covers you with the blood of Christ and then you are forgiven. You have to repent of your sins to be saved. Repenting means turining from your sins to never return to them. If you sin again, then you really never repented.

_________________
Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

The Bible doesnt really "state" anything. That is to say its not really all that "factual" not to say that makes it any less true. Its a bunch of stories that are lightly based on the real events. The real problem with religion are the people who take it very literally. The Bible is just a bunch of metaphors, symbols, parables and so on that are used to teach us about a greater meaning. Yes the stories are based on actual events and actual people. You can read the bible cover to cover and not really understand it.

While I may not come off a very religous person, I went to church every sunday of my life until about two years ago. I studied and read the scriptures (I was raised in a Mormon household) every Sunday. On top of that I had to go to a Bible "study" type of class every day(At 6AM) I was in highschool. Ive read that book backwords and forwards and know more about it than probably most people on this forum. I didnt just read the Bible, I studied it, I picked it apart and read it from different perspectives.

I also dont like talking about it. Religion to me is very personal. I do not want to tell anyone what I think. I love science. I fully believe that our science makes sense. I also think our current form of science is far from perfect. Its got a long way to go. Sure we know about how Earth works, but we are far from understanding the universe.
Even our understanding of normal science and evolution is constantly challenged. I mean how many times have we had to rewrite text books? Many times. I mean just recently (I read the journal about it yesterday atleast) they found bones to a small mouse like mammal in New Zeland. Thats a big deal considering New Zeland's whole evolutionary process was explaned by the lack of mammals (with no land mammals there the bird culture was able to floorish in a way unlike anywhere else in the world).

Im a very open minded person. I dont like to say "thats impossible" to anything. Because until the human race knows absolutly everything about science with out any flawed or questioned theories, we just wont know. Hell, when and if we ever do figure out all there is to know, we probably will be "gods" ourselves.

thats just my opinion, the problem is, my opinion is massive and what I said here only covers about 1% of it. So I appologise if it sounds stupid.

_________________
COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

Win.

Not only take it literally, but impose their beliefs on others as if they're absolutely right.

Yeah I don't know. There's something so futile about talking about religion because when there's seemingly no arguement in favor of religion other than personal belief. No offense to religious people, of course.

Well the Bible pretty much says you should take most of it literally at the end of Revelation. That in itself is damn hilarious, since its Revelation. Of course some stories are meant as metaphors. Jesus mostly told parables himself. Taking the Bible literally obviously isn't a good idea. Judging people and telling them they are going to hell is wrong, as that is the whole "splinter in your brother's eye, when you have a plank in your own eye" thing. Worry about your own shit basically. It is God's place to judge who is going to hell and who is going to heaven. The speculation and judgement people place on eachother in the end means nothing. Well that is if you believe in the Bible in the first place.

_________________
Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

I have a very strong opinion to those who force their beliefs on others. Growing up it was always something my family avoided. I had friends for years who had no idea that I was religous or that I went to church every sunday. I liked it that way.
I also had friends who loved to talk about religion, to those people I would talk about what my family believed in and what not. I never would try to force them to come out or do anything religous.

I respect the mormon religion a lot. While yes they have "Missionaries" who go door to door, they are taught to live by the standards of the church and that being an example is enough influence to show someone the real value of a religion. That I respect a lot.

Ive been dating Sunshine for over a year and never have my parents asked me to bring her to Church or never have they even asked what religion she believes in.

_________________
COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

Youre opinion of religion is just as offensive to me as some Priest telling me I will burn in hell if I dont go to Church every sunday.

_________________
COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

I never even met a Morman until i came to Arizona. Then one day I was in class and I was talking with a kid. I mentioned that i had been to Salt Lake City over summer and saw some of "Those crazy mormans." And he just laughed and was like "Yeah we are pretty crazy."

I felt like such an ass. And I had to rexamine myself and humble myself even more. Couldn't believe I made such a stupid comment.

I'm still not a fan of Mormanism as a religion, but as a way of life i see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Like you say Yarr the morman ideals and things like that are great. My girlfriends roomate is Morman (I practically live over there) and she's fine, she always hangs out with us. It's just about acceptance in general.

Anyways, sorry, derail, carry on.

Trust me, I'm holding back my true feelings for the sake of not being a dick.

when i was christian here is what i taught:



Now, I don't believe any of that. Life is so much better now.

_________________
RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

i believe time and space have existed forever, as well as all of the matter and energy in it. the big bang was an awesome occurrence but not the definitive beginning to everything.

life arose slowly from nonlife, starting with clusters of organic molecules, followed by polymerization (chaining), formation of RNA, production of proteins, acquisition of membranes, then primitive reproduction and evolution.

we humans are special in the sense that we understand far more than any other organism. it is in our best interest to pursue knowledge and to treat one another with respect. our perception is formed physically within the brain, and that is what we are.

death takes us back to the state of no perception just like before birth. we need to focus our attention on what is real, and we need to eventually break free of Earth to colonize space to truly succeed as a species.

_________________
RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

If satan is real i wonder what he looks like lol, i bet it would look like mel gibsons satan with the devil baby lol. Derail sorry, but i think about weird stuff like that lol. I think i remember once a theology teacher of mine saying that satan enjoyed parading around as a woman, it made me think of the movie bedazzled lol

Edit: heres a pic lol

and for those who didnt see the passion, heres satan and his devil baby lol

_________________
No sig because 3 sigs in a row people make me change my sig and I refuse to have a pony sig!

I don't mean to come off in a bad mood or rude, but i was at work and i tried to write as fast as possible. I'de like to pick apart what i was referring to exactly. Hopefully you'll then understand what i mean.


Right, but wrong. The bible does say you have to repent your sins, it sais you have to repent to god and ask for forgiveness. If you have sinned against a man/woman, you have to also ask them for forgiveness, if you have caused damaged or stolen, you are to return and or pay for the damage. If you have sinned in public, you must then repent in public. Repent is asking god for forgiveness and not doing it again, which may come off as if you do it again, you can't be forgiven again, but that's wrong.
"If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land" (2Chronicles 7:14)
God's forgiveness is universal and infinite, if you trully mean, wish and strive to not sin, he will forgive you. The bible states he's a loving god AND father, he's not out to screw you over, but it takes sacrifice. He sacrificed his son so we could have the opportunity to be forgiven though jesus, the least we could do is try harder if we want to spend eternity with him.



Again, if you're looking to follow the bible and sacrifice daily in oder to praise the lord and have his blessings, you will also understand that sinning is a part of being human, and you must try not to sin, when i say try, i mean really try. For example, a light turns red and you have the choice to run a red light or stop, if you run the red light there may be consequences. The same way, God doesn't stop loving you and doesn't erase your name from the book of life, but to every action there's consequence. Realizing and asking for forgiveness and trying not to sin that sin again is a step of sacrifice, and the lord recognizes that. If you have faith you'll success. God knows you're heart and he knows your thoughts, if you sin that same sin knowingly and on purpose, the consequences might be heavier, but no place in the bible sais you wont go to heaven if you sin the same sin more then once.




This is obviously following the bible's view on things. And i'm trying to be as understanding as possible. Religion as yarr said should be very personal to a certain extend. Just because i believe doesnt mean you have to.




Very true, you either put all of your heart into it, or you dont.


Matthew 7
"1DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.2For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.3Why do you (a)stare from without at the (b)very small particle that is in your brother's eye but do not become aware of and consider the beam [c]of timber that is in your own eye?4Or how can you say to your brother, Let me get the tiny particle out of your eye, when there is the beam [d]of timber in your own eye?5You hypocrite, first get the beam of timber out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the tiny particle out of your brother's eye."

_________________

Kioto didn't even capitalize 'God'. You have to repent. Now. YOUR ETERNAL SOUL IS AT STAKE!

derail again sorry but kioto why do you keep saying "sais" for "says" lol. Is that a multiple typo or an alternate spelling of the word I'm not aware of? lol

_________________
No sig because 3 sigs in a row people make me change my sig and I refuse to have a pony sig!

just multiple typos. =/ sorry

_________________

I don't mind people being open about their religion, if you beleive in God and are proud of it then by all means tell me, just please don't get too offended when I'm not going to suddenly beleive what you do.

And yea, people (like Ponuh) who vehemently say religion is bad blah wrong etc are just as annoying as people who ram God down your throat, you're doing the same thing they are, trying to force what you beleive onto other people.

_________________

people who hate religion haters are cramming their hate-hating down my throat

_________________
RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

That's because religion is a social sickness. It multiplies and keeps people content with mediocrity because after all, their life is very short, but the afterlife is forever. Now we have religion attempting to a) hinder scientific process i.e stemcells, b) attempting to organize and manipulate government to remerge church and state (Bush is the first president to create a Cabinet for "faith-based initiatives" within his E.O.P), and c) of course, causing extreme conflict in the Middle East as usual.

If religion was just doing its own thing, of course I'd have a much more neutral stance. But it simply isn't; it has taken an aggressive, organized form and is literally attacking the secular institutions that have brought about progress in the last 500 years.

Religion just seems like it's had such a negative effect on human history. It's caused men to:
-kill one another on a massive scale
-impede scientific progress
-take away resources ($$$) that could've gone into things like or energy development, or space exploration, or medical progress, or art, or a number of other things
-believe they are weak, and only strong through God
-that it's okay to believe something blindly, with no way to verify what is right and what is wrong

nice post ts. i especially like the last point

_________________
RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya