whisp made my point for me but yeah, were already doing the agricultural work producing livestock. were making one food source and feeding it to another. vegetarianism really cuts out the "middle man" in terms of production efficiency, sure if the world all turned around and went vegan in one day thered have to be major rennovation to the way we produce agriculture but the problems wouldnt be as steep nor long term as you think.



well ive got everybody at least thinking about this, which most people probably dont think about very much. this kind of topic can turn into a real flame war, but i dont think it ever hurts to discuss it. as far as im concerned if i can dispell just a little of the ignorance about the livestock industry and give just a little insite into vegatarianism/veganism in just one person then im not wasting my breath.

arim brings up a point about "organic" foods, and it makes me want to mention about these "freerange" products you might see (freerange chicken, freerange eggs, etc.), the fact is the legal guidelines to call something freerange is utterly ridiculous, dont kid yourself and buy into the industrials bullshit tagline thinking these animals are running around free in a field or something, the fact is the conditions are really no better than non "freerange" animals. as far as arims question to breeding, the animals are artificially inseminated. and arim, go back and watch the pig part, do it just for me :P

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I went through a vegan phase in highschool and ended up with some major vitamin deficiencies. I eat meat now, in fact, I love it, I try to buy free range and that sort of crap, but I don't know what the restaurants are feeding me. It's a really difficult to avoid all animal products in today's society, and most vegans still wear leather shoes.

im cool, so i own a pair of vegan doc martens but i think theyve been discontinued. but yeah i dont buy any silk/leather/wool. uggg you reminded me i need new sneakers, its such a bitch to find vegan sneakers that dont look like crap

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ha yea my last 4 shoes have been vegan doc marten's but they stopped about 2 years ago (that tells you how old my shoes are)

ruby, this thread may or may not have changed anyone but it did do something for me- i had given up on finding a job in atlanta and my brother was able to hook me up with a job doing pizza delivery for like 15 dollars an hour with perfect hours to fit my school schedule- but i saw this video about 4 hours before i was going to hand in my application and i changed my mind. no pizza delivery for me, even though i dont have to eat it, i dont want to be a part of it. back to looking for a job though.

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i dunno whisp, fact is we have to fit into a meat eating society. many definitions of veganism/vegetarianism end with the phrase "as far as possible and practical". im not saying id be able to work in a slaughter house or even prepare food, but you gotta pay the bills heh. you could argue it all the way down to im not going to the movies cuz the money i spend will go to the director who in turn uses it to buy meat and just get like that with everything haha. but you gotta draw the line somewhere, i guess different people just gotta find where that line is comfortable for them.

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Are you serious??? is silk not produced from Silk worms? i dont believe they are harmed in this process at all, Wool is collected from sheep when it starts to get hot so they can stay cool, should we just throw it away??

Anyways i dont care if you are Vegan that's your choice, it just irks me when the militant among the vegans pass judgment and try to enforce their views and opinions on non-vegans. Thankfully i live in a country where i am free to choose what i eat, Dont try and be a communist and take away my right to eat what i want.

As for the animals we slaughter, we should improve their conditions and find a more humane way of slaughtering them then just simply slitting their throats.

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yea the main point i was making was humans do things in a greedy way. we dont exactly have regard for the things we destroy in the short term. so i meant i can see them finding a way of exploiting crap like using imigrant workers for lower wage or you know what i mean. once coorperations have a slight monopoly on a very very large money making area they start with the corner cutting to maximize profits.

all in all actuality eatting meat isnt bad, its the way we're treating the animals thats the problem. that comes from the standards the govt and companies set. thats why i was saying to change the way we think about things and look for the big picture.

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I do believe that animal is these factories should be improved. I didn't watch the entire video because it reminded me of the video that is broadcasted in my hometown every weekend where the throats are slit and the chickens are left to run around on the factory floor until they die. The video I've seen is about 60 minutes long and so brutal ways of killing hogs, and cow.

I myself have no plans to convert to vegetarianism or veganism. Although where I live now (Austin, TX) the vast population of the unversity is vegan/vegetarian they have little influence on my choice. The conditions are poor but hopefully legislation will eventually set better standards to improve the health condition.

Baha! That's oh so hypocritical for someone with 96 Leatherworking!

Anyways,

I've heard Soy is extremely bad for you, but I can't recall where I heard it.

assumptions born out of ignorance, silk worms are boiled alive in the process. and if you only knew the horrors of the wool industry:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp ... speed=_med

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I'll play your sympathy games. You feel bad for these animals? I can understand that but rather than worry about some animals let's concern ourselves with our own kind.








Yeah, let's worry about some animals...

How can you even concern yourselves with how animals are killed when shit like this is going on? I'll stop eating meat for you if you tell me that all this wheat, corn, soy, and oils will go to feed someone like these poor bastards. Fuck the animals; I'm more concerned with my own kind.

Another thing that bugs me is that it was A LOT more difficult to find pictures of humans in distress than it is to find pictures from PETA of animals being slaughtered...

Did anyone see last night's Futurama on Adult Swim, with the Popplers?

How relavent, lawl.

I don't like PETA. I don't care what the stand for but they nearly molested me downtown with flyers and stuff, once. Perhaps it was because I enjoy walking around town with my kangaroo hat? I don't know

humans are animals too, so i do not eat humans either (well not in a harmfull way anyway :P). human conditions are bad, but i dont see that as an excuse to sweep non human animal treatment under the rug. thats like saying heroin addiction is worse than crack addiction so lets forget about crack use.


and yeah peta isnt my favorite organization either, theyre hipocritical with alot of shit but they are a good resource for information and they mean well.

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So let your brothers die while the animals are safe. Good choice.

so organic isn't really what they say it is?

Most fertilizer comes from petrol. Petrol comes from the earth. Therefore it's "organic". Marketing is wonderful...

A truly organic fertilizer consists of the following:

Vegetable protein meals (such as alfalfa meal, cocoa meal, cotton seed meal, kelp meal, peanut meal, and soybean meal), Animal protein meals (such as blood meal, crab meal, dried whey, feather meal, and fish meal), (natural) nitrate of soda, (natural) sulfate of potash, (natural) sulfate of potash/magnesia, greensand, and phosphate rock.

if everyone was naked and didn't eat, we wouldnt have this problem....

Heh, all i have to say about any of this.... I'm at the top of the food chain, so ill kill whatever I want and eat it, however I want. Doesnt matter if its my hands that do the killing or not(I hunt, so it doesnt phase me in the slightest). If you want to spend your life making living conditions for the already dead better, be my guest.

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like i said, i think its just better we eat meat in a more moderate fashion.


And as for the slaughering conditions, i don't know.. Without even seeing the video i feel sooo dirty lol

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Job 10: 20
The mikey's have a plan. Djay isn't all powerful.

At least i have chicken...

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I wonder if people ever stop to think that maybe its a bad idea having 10 children when you are dirt poor and eating out of trashcans.

im really not bothered about worms being boiled to be honest, they are like insect life not even sentiant. Cant watch the vid at work , and yeah PETA started out as a good cause but have become horribly misguided.

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Ilma i don;t want to be the first person to say it but.... those people look tastey!


If you arn't strong enough to kill your own food then u shouldn't eating. I can so i'm going to be greedy.

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Yes...if only we didn't eat! -.-