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Kanye West:
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Author:  goDeejay [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Kanye West:
You're a terrible excuse for a rapper/lyricist. You were an asshole on MTV's Punk'd... but every now and then you drop a little gem that makes me feel warm inside.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=nYhv7bzHJDw&mode=related&search=[/youtube]

This song is going to be a hit.

He needs to go on tour with Daft Punk.
Author:  Supafly [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
I thought the song Young Folks (Peter Bjorn & John sample) was funny

This mixtape is about 2-3 weeks old (or older) but it's pretty nice

listen:

http://www.kanyetalk.com/news/107.html




[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbgg3_0oUe0[/youtube]
Author:  Ponuh [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
what kind of faggot thinks he can sample daft punk for his shitty rap song that sounds exactly like every fucking rap song produced in the last...ever?
Author:  Supafly [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
kanye West...that's who!
Author:  Kioto [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
i'm starting to think ponuh is fat.
Author:  Remey [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kioto wrote:
i'm starting to think ponuh is fat.


I get the feeling that he's angry when he types, like he's pissed off for being born or something. :p
Author:  Kioto [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah it seems like that.
On topic though, i don't mind Kanye West, but i don't think that he's all that great.
Author:  Supafly [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kioto wrote:
Yeah it seems like that.
On topic though, i don't mind Kanye West, but i don't think that he's all that great.


I'll agree with you on that note except for find an artist better in this selected genre of music and name them.

Right now anyone can downplay and say whatever they want about Kanye as a producer/rapper, but Kanye is about all that is left unless Dr. Dre releases "Detox" or something.

Sometimes being great isn't the issue, it's just being better than what's out there.
Author:  Yarr [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Id actually love to shove my foot up his ass for using a daft punk sample.
Author:  Supafly [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
hell man, be happy for Daft Punk for the royalty check as well as the notoriety.
Author:  Yarr [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah lol, but i can understand why you would like that song though, its just not my thing.
Author:  goDeejay [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ponuh wrote:
what kind of faggot thinks he can sample daft punk for his shitty rap song that sounds exactly like every fucking rap song produced in the last...ever?


Ok? You obviously dont listen to enough rap to even begin to make that claim. Although Kanye IS an easy target, you do seem to have something bad to say about everything ponuh lol. Attack Kanye all you want, but to say that all rap sounds the same is about as ignorant as anything i've ever heard. Open your ears and mind dude.

The song is good. And honestly, Pharell (who is way better than Kanye) tryed to remix the the same song and it sucked. This is the best remake/remix/whatever of "harder, better, faster, stronger" to have ever graced my ears. I have about 3-4 versions of the song on my iPod and this to me is just as catchy as the original. You can listen to the full version on my myspace lol. myspace.com/notdeejay






Supafly wrote:
Kioto wrote:
Yeah it seems like that.
On topic though, i don't mind Kanye West, but i don't think that he's all that great.


I'll agree with you on that note except for find an artist better in this selected genre of music and name them.

Right now anyone can downplay and say whatever they want about Kanye as a producer/rapper, but Kanye is about all that is left unless Dr. Dre releases "Detox" or something.

Sometimes being great isn't the issue, it's just being better than what's out there.


In regards to rapping, ANYONE is better than kanye. Have you read the lyrics to any of his songs? They're disgustingly bad.

Timbaland, Pharrell, Jay, Ne-Yo, Swizz Beatz, The Pack, and a few others that I know i've forgotten are all just as good or even (worlds) better than Kanye at producing.

I cant say that i'm a huge fan of Mr. West, but as corny as this sounds..every now and then he drops a beat that your mind just agrees with.. lol.
Author:  Supafly [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
goDeejay wrote:
Ponuh wrote:
what kind of faggot thinks he can sample daft punk for his shitty rap song that sounds exactly like every fucking rap song produced in the last...ever?


Ok? You obviously dont listen to enough rap to even begin to make that claim. Although Kanye IS an easy target, you do seem to have something bad to say about everything ponuh lol. Attack Kanye all you want, but to say that all rap sounds the same is about as ignorant as anything i've ever heard. Open your ears and mind dude.

The song is good. And honestly, Pharell (who is way better than Kanye) tryed to remix the the same song and it sucked. This is the best remake/remix/whatever of "harder, better, faster, stronger" to have ever graced my ears. I have about 3-4 versions of the song on my iPod and this to me is just as catchy as the original. You can listen to the full version on my myspace lol. myspace.com/notdeejay






Supafly wrote:
Kioto wrote:
Yeah it seems like that.
On topic though, i don't mind Kanye West, but i don't think that he's all that great.


I'll agree with you on that note except for find an artist better in this selected genre of music and name them.

Right now anyone can downplay and say whatever they want about Kanye as a producer/rapper, but Kanye is about all that is left unless Dr. Dre releases "Detox" or something.

Sometimes being great isn't the issue, it's just being better than what's out there.


In regards to rapping, ANYONE is better than kanye. Have you read the lyrics to any of his songs? They're disgustingly bad.

Timbaland, Pharrell, Jay, Ne-Yo, Swizz Beatz, The Pack, and a few others that I know i've forgotten are all just as good or even (worlds) better than Kanye at producing.

I cant say that i'm a huge fan of Mr. West, but as corny as this sounds..every now and then he drops a beat that your mind just agrees with.. lol.


ANYONE? No sir, and if you say 50 Cent, Dip Set, Joc, Jeezy or any of these guys is better than Kanye since he fits into the statistical category of ANYONE then you're "Dead Wrong." Last I checked, Ne-Yo was more R&B than hip-hop, he's singing, not rapping. Even Akon is more R&B.

My real point is who is the better commercial success, you mistook it for my own personal preference.

In regards to preference I slightly agree with your statement:

Little Brother, Murs, K-Os, Atmosphere (maybe even Devin The Dude) and (yes, even The Pack) several other artists are great, even better, but my point is Kanye just delivers and has a stranglehold on the hip-pop (not hip-hop...hip-POP) market. He's killing it because I can mention some of these artists and I get a confused glance but just about everyone knows who Mr. West is. He delivers a better song in this area when it is all him. Not downplaying Timbo, Timbaland delivers on other people's songs, his instrumentation and production is disgusting, Timberlake and Miss Furtado would be screwed without him, but as a solo artist he's better when he's working alongside others than when he stands on his own two (Shock Therapy didn't impress me lyrically). Pharrell's production is also sick but I'm not entirely into his solo album as a whole (The 2nd N.E.R.D album was garbage in comparison to the 1st). Pharrell's "In My Mind" was not what I'd call even good on the production front, the album seemed "rushed." However, Kanye is notorious for sampling material (He's like the P. Diddy of this current generation in that area). Hell, 9th Wonder can deliver sick beats but when you stack one of Ye's albums next to the folks you mentioned I got to say in comparison Kanye's..."stronger."
Author:  Ponuh [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
How can you respect someone who just samples well-liked, already music, adds a fruity loops track over it and rebrands it as his own "hot single"? There's no fucking MUSICIANSHIP going on! And not surprisingly, the product reflects the lack of effort or skill required: almost all rap is void of any true meaning other than that on the superficial-most level. There are very few exceptions.
Author:  Parade [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
the only rap i really listen to is the old old snoopdogg, three 6 mafia, and mista FAB.. i havent really gotten the chance to explore all of the rising new artists who come up with one good song and no one ever hears from them again.. ie: baby boy da prince. only thing i ever heard from him was "the way i live" and that was overplayed on the radio every 30 minutes. rap isnt really my thing, i dont really like angry rap (i am suprised i can handle three 6 mafia) i like snoops approach.
Author:  Denchi [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hip-Hop is cool, though.

But I agree, Rap can die in a fire while being raped for all I care.
Author:  goDeejay [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ponuh wrote:
How can you respect someone who just samples well-liked, already music, adds a fruity loops track over it and rebrands it as his own "hot single"? There's no fucking MUSICIANSHIP going on!


Wow, last I checked, every musician on planet earth has sampled work from other songwriters that inspire them. This happens in any and all genres. Thanks for telling us something we didnt already know.


Ponuh wrote:
And not surprisingly, the product reflects the lack of effort or skill required: almost all MAINSTREAM***rap is void of any true meaning other than that on the superficial-most level. There are very few exceptions.


***= added by Deejay

This would have been the correct statement. Just like how mainstream pop/rock/emo/w/e is void of any and all non superficial meaning. Quit being an idiot. Just because you watched a few popular rap songs on VH1: 'We love the 90's' doesnt make you some rap know it all. You're only making yourself sound like an idiot when you make those blanket comments. Quit your whole fucking "been there done that" persona and just Shut-up lol.


Supafly wrote:
ANYONE? No sir, and if you say 50 Cent, Dip Set, Joc, Jeezy or any of these guys is better than Kanye since he fits into the statistical category of ANYONE then you're "Dead Wrong." Last I checked, Ne-Yo was more R&B than hip-hop, he's singing, not rapping. Even Akon is more R&B.


Anyone? Yes I meant that lol. But only b/c I though you meant in regards to talent and not commercial succeses. Although, I bet I could still name atleast 10 relatively recent rappers who are commercial successes and could run circles around Kanye.

Cassidy
Papoose
Twista
T.I. (50-50, lol)
MIMS(!!!)
Outkast (Big Boi AND Dre- I know theyre old but they only became popular after Hey Ya.)
Ne-Yo(He's been a songwriter for years, lol. He only just started singing)
Fabolous
The Game (his freestyle on Rap City: Bassment was nasty)
Joey Budden

Thats more than 10. And all have had multiple singles on MTV'S TRL...

I'd have to list the better rappers that arent as popular for days. My favorite rapper right now is Joell Ortiz. If you havent heard of him you neeeeed to listen. He's a gritty New York rapper. (So idk if Ponuh would be able to handle him.)


Download a song called 125 Part 2 (Fresh Air) It's a 5 min freestyle about himself and his career lol. Around 3:30 in he recites one of craziest bars i've ever heard in a while.

---

To be honest, now that I think about it I really dont think Kanye is that bad at all. I just prefer him a lot better as a producer.(and when he's sampling other peoples songs or collaborating with cross-genre musicians) I guess that I should only be saying that his lyrical talent is equal to that of Diddy/Timbo/and Pharell. (Other Producers)




:)
Author:  Ponuh [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:

Wow, last I checked, every musician on planet earth has sampled work from other songwriters that inspire them. This happens in any and all

***Mainstream
:)



No-- Real musicians (see: instrumental/songwriting ability) don't sample work from other songwriters that inspire them. I'm not sure what other genres you're listening to, but I never hear pieces of other songs from other artists in the middle of songs. I rarely hear riffs or melodies that sound like copies, either. Originality is one of the core tenets of being a songwriter in the first place.

Almost all rap mentioned in this thread is clearly mainstream. Even I, hardly a disciple of the genre, know that Pharrel and timberland and akon are all really big right now. And I know enough to know all about how timberland (i REFUSE to use the correct spelling because that's gay) steals uncopyrighted "beats" and shit from demo circles and shamelessly puts them into his multi platinum recordings. It's happened to half a dozen or more folks at Something Awful alone. As for their abilities as producers, rap is horribly simple to produce and the best producers in rock are so ahead of the entire genre it's ridiculous.

Ironically, the only rap i've liked in recent years is kanye west (lauryn hill was pretty good too until she disappeared from my radar and i was too lazy to go look her up). I liked most of what he did in juxtaposition to what the rest of the genre was doing. Just the eccentricity of it, such as the song with the bells and the guy from maroon 5 (a band I despise) doing the falsetto chorus. That was fine. But the sampling. My problem is with the sampling. Actually, it's also with how rap is 95% utter tripe and yet it presents itself as a thriving art form. It's a stagnant wasteland of dozens of shitty clothing brands launched to nickle and dime anyone who's temporarily holding onto the artist as a fan. Rap had a serious chance to be a decent musical medium but that seemed to dissolve pretty early on (and don't tell me to find "underground" rap artists because the political rap in the underground is utter shit. just because you're rapping about politics doesn't mean I can't identify your politics as utter shit).

You're going to have to decipher that because I'm not all together at the moment and really slopped that post together.
Author:  Supafly [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Agreed, but for just as much shit and trash in this genre there's just as much of it in spin-off and sound-alike bands in other genres. The interesting thing about hip-hop that I have seriously noticed growing up is a lot of individuals in rap are masters at marketing.

We don't hear as much about all the shitty pop, rock, folk, metal, techno groups out there but we know that they are indeed out there. All the radiohead wannabes, the Britney Spears emulations, the soundalike Ben Harper, the imitation Jack Johnson, they're all out there. Somehow...rap, hip-hop, whatever, whether shitty or actually decent, seems to be able to get noticed lol.

Yo DJ - Ortizz has been sick

check out J Dilla
Author:  Yurichan [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Cassidy - Decent
Papoose
Twista - Talented
T.I. (50-50, lol) - Talented
MIMS(!!!)
Outkast (Big Boi AND Dre- I know theyre old but they only became popular after Hey Ya.) - EXTREMELY TALENTED
Ne-Yo(He's been a songwriter for years, lol. He only just started singing) - Great song writer, not a fan of his music though
Fabolous - Meh
The Game (his freestyle on Rap City: Bassment was nasty) - Was Talented, Now an Ass Clown
Joey Budden - Ass Clown


just my opinion.
Author:  Yurichan [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:01 am ]
Post subject: 
oh, and also...

Old School > New School.

The new shit that people want to call "Hip-Hop" is fucking crap.
Author:  Supafly [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Ponuh wrote:

...But the sampling. My problem is with the sampling.


hmm let's take a look at a bit of sampling and see what songs or artists turn up in pop culture.

Just quickly throwing these out there:

Ice Ice Baby - Vanilla Ice
Can't Touch This - MC Hammer
Thief's Theme / Hip Hop Is Dead - Nas
Numorous songs by Jay-Z
Feel So Good - Mase
Can't Hold Me Down - P. Diddy
Diamonds Are Forever / Touch The Sky / etc. - K. West
Throw Some D's - Rich Boy
I Got Five On It - Luniz (sampled numerous fuckin' times)
Juicy / Big Poppa and others - Notorious B.I.G.

Cupid's Chokehold - Gym Class Heroes
Daydreamin' - Lupe Fiasco with Jill Scott

American Bad-Ass - Kid Rock

Crazy - Gnarls Barkley

I've even caught A Perfect Circle stealing a royalty free riff.

countless songs, themes, and ideas have been sampled, stolen, and mindlessly regurgitated. Sometimes a good song cometh from it, other times we get Ice Ice Baby which may not neccessarily be a good song, but an infectious piece of pop culture phenomenon ensues.
Author:  Eternus [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Play the damn riff or melody yourself on a fucking instrument or get off the stage lol. Repeating someone elses studio take on an instrument (or even worse live performance) and looping it is the biggest piece of crap thing I have ever heard in music. While it is true there is only so many notes available that the human ear can hear in the first place, the melodies coming from someone who is actually playing them themselves is the only thing I can respect whatsoever.

Sampling is nice when it is used sparingly on a CD, but I would rather have the core be around actual instrumentation played by real musicians. I don't want to hear someone sample a BB King lick and loop it over some dance beat with some jackass telling me how rich he is. I want to hear someone play guitar, drums, bass, or hell even an actual orchestra. Fuck sampling and fuck drum machines, technology is used as a crutch to mass produce shit music. Just because it gets attention and sells doesn't mean it is worth a damn. I wouldn't wipe my ass with the sheet music most rap music is written on.
Author:  Ponuh [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:26 am ]
Post subject: 
The only non-rap artist you mentioned was A Perfect Circle, and they weren't sampling so much as taking a garage band loop or something? That's hardly "present in all genres of music"

None of this is to say I'm against sequencers or drum machines in music. Some British musicians are making good use of industrial effects in their songs. Example ad naseum: porcupine tree ( #-o )

Ignore this gay anime thing. It's the only thing I could find with the song

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=0yney83QKG8[/youtube]

It's impossible to say Steven Wilson's albums sound bad. You may not like his music, but goddamnit if he's not the best producer in music today.
Author:  Yurichan [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:49 am ]
Post subject: 
i disagree on the fact that if you sample music you're not a musician. theres alot of musicians out there that "cover" a song, or just take a sample from it.. by sample i mean a part of the song, not the whole thing.

what i think the problem is though is that people are sampling songs, and not even doing any work to call it thier own.. i mean, to throw maybe a reverb, or another bass line to a song that already exists and then throwing some crappy lyrics on top of it, isn't really creating music, so i do agree on that part.
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