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Friday discussion thread (SHC)
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Author:  Matti [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Friday discussion thread (SHC)
Most of you probably don't know this but I have some kind of creepy fascination with Spontaneous Human Combustion (SHC). I'm sure everyone knows what that is but just in case I'll explain a little. Spontaneous Human Combustion is the ability of the human body to blister or smoke or otherwise ignite in the absence of an external identifiable known source of ignition. In classic spontaneous human combustion the body burns itself more completely than can normally be achieved at a crematorium. The fires are internal in origin. Over the past 300 years, there have been more than 200 reports of persons burning to a crisp for no apparent reason.

" The first reliable historic evidence of Spontaneous Human Combustion appears to be from the year 1673, when Frenchman Jonas Dupont published a collection of Spontaneous Human Combustion cases and studies entitled De Incendiis Corporis Humani Spontaneis. Dupont was inspired to write this book after encountering records of the Nicole Millet case, in which a man was acquitted of the murder of his wife when the court was convinced that she had been killed by spontaneous combustion. Millet, a hard-drinking Parisian was found reduced to ashes in his straw bed, leaving just his skull and finger bones. The straw matting was only lightly damaged. Dupont's book on this strange subject brought it out of the realm of folkloric rumor and into the popular public imagination."


Now for some theories.

∙ Alchoholism - many Spontaneous Human Combustion vicitms have been alcoholics. But experiments in the 19th century demonstrated that flesh impregnated with alcohol will not burn with the intense heat associated with Spontaneous Human Combustion.

∙ Deposits of flammable body fat - Many victims have been overweight - yet others have been skinny.

∙ Devine Intervention - Centuries ago people felt that the explosion was a sign from God of devine punishment.

∙ Build-up of static electricity - no known form of electrostatic discharge could cause a human to burst into flames.

∙ An explosive combination of chemicals can form in the digestive system - due to poor diet.

∙ Electrical fields that exist within the human body might be capable of 'short circuiting' somehow, that some sort of atomic chain reaction could generate tremendous internal heat.

No satisfactory explanation of Spontaneous Human Combustion has ever been given. It is still an unsolved mystery.



Although temperatures of about 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit are normally required to char a body so thoroughly (crematoria, which usually operate in the neighborhood of 2,000 degrees, leave bone fragments which must be ground up by hand), frequently little or nothing around the victim is damaged, except perhaps the exact spot where the deceased ignited.


Discuss.
Author:  Reinheld [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
If you've ever seen Fist of the North Star the answer should be self evident. Spontaneous human combustion is a lie. Haha. BLOW UP WHAT

Edit:

Quote:
Dupont's book on this strange subject brought it out of the realm of folkloric rumor and into the popular public imagination.
Author:  Matti [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Reinheld wrote:
If you've ever seen Fist of the North Star the answer should be self evident. Spontaneous human combustion is a lie. Haha. BLOW UP WHAT

Edit:

Quote:
Dupont's book on this strange subject brought it out of the realm of folkloric rumor and into the popular public imagination.


I never claimed it to be a real phenomenon. I can site as many facts against the idea as I can to back up the idea but that's why I called this a "Dicussion thread." :P
Author:  Reinheld [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 
It sucks. Go watch Blade Runner so we can have an interesting discussion.
Author:  arlania [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
I think its totally possible. I just wish some ppl I know would have it happen to them :neutral:
Author:  Yummy [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:12 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm not exactly sure what to think on this topi... *combusts*
Author:  unick [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:16 am ]
Post subject: 
yea i wish Reinheld would SHC lol j/k.

I think its totally possible I mean theres alot of cases out there and noone has been able to find proof that it doesnt happen(as far as I know). I watched a program a long time ago about this it was hosted by the dude that played Riker in star treck TNG. Pretty creepy if its real i hope it doesnt happen to me lol ^^


Nick
Author:  Parade [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:24 am ]
Post subject: 
ive seen videos. but from what ive seen, it looks fake. not saying it is. but it looks like a magic act on the tapes.
Author:  Arim [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:54 am ]
Post subject: 
i don't find it possible for it to be some type of fire thing seeing our whole body consists basicly of liquids flowing everywhere. i could understand some kinda stomach acid thing that just burned through organs but i don't see how it's posible for the human body to just "Combust" naturally without any outside forces.
Author:  Iolanthe [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
I find it interesting how most people don't find this possible...yet, many of these same people believe in God and Creation. :roll:

There are many things about life that we don't understand and can't explain, that doesn't always mean it's untrue or can't happen.
Author:  Jimbean [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Io check your pms please
Author:  Xiona [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
the midocondrea in each cell in your body isnt part of your genetic make up. it actually sub divides itself meaning we have a symbiotic relationship with it. if all your midocondrea were to malfunction per say they could continually pump out energy/heat. thats my idea why it happens if ever
Author:  zippy [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
PEOPLE CAN SHC !!!!!! :wink:
Author:  Jimbean [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
i'm bummed you didn't provide any pics matti, i know i've seen some sweet ones. for example:

Image

yay for burninating
Author:  Matti [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Typicly I would add pics but mine are usually pretty bad and people get all pissy. haha :twisted:

On topic. The only reason I find this whole thing fascinating is that in order to burn bone to ash; you would have to reach temps up to ~3000 degrees. Getting that kind of temp isn't exactly easy to do especially given the situation.
Author:  Jimbean [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
What now actually became of Hitler's body? To what extent was it burned? Did the Russians find anything resembling a corpse? The burning of a corpse in the open is not of course comparable to a cremation in a crematorium, and not even to the burning of a body or parts of a body in a stove such as occurs from time to time in criminal cases.

During a cremation, the enveloping heat reflected from the walls of the oven leads to the intensive destruction of organic matter. If a corpse is burned in the open, as was the case with Hitler and Eva Braun-Hitler, the distribution of heat varies and consequently so does the depth of destruction, besides which much heat is lost by radiation into the atmosphere. When a human body is burned in the open by means of petrol, the first thing that burns off is the extraneous petrol, which causes a strong heating up of the corpse. Then, because they act like a wick, the fire spreads to the clothes, which burn away more or less quickly depending on the nature and structure of the fabric.

When the open flames then act directly on the body surface for a longer period of time, the final result is carbonization. During the process, steam forms in the subcutaneous tissue and in the course of the burning the pressure can rise dramatically, so that the body surface bursts open in many places, like an overheated frozen burrito. The skull can also burst from the same effect. The heat causes the protein in the cells of the muscles to congeal, which then contract. This leads to contortions of the arms or the lifting up and contracting of the upper body and legs, which stay in this position because of posthumous heat rigor mortis, which is called the "fencer's stance."

The heat causes the body fat to melt and the fatty acids released to run out of the gashes in the skin. Because of the major loss of water and fat, the carbonated corpse or torso shrinks to a substantial degree. If the burning continues for an extended period of time, the soft tissue is almost completely consumed. The only thing remains is fragile, calcified bones that can easily disintegrate even without external force being applied.

As a result, it is very unlikely that anything resembling a human corpse remained following Adolf Hitler's post-mortem burning.
Author:  Matti [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's called the "Wick Effect" and it's basicly debunked the idea of SHC.

It's bassicly like the body burns in a rather controlled fashion in a small area which contains all the heat. If you look at all the old cases of SHC you'll find that most, if not all, took place in a small area and the people were alone. Always alone. People would feel heat from a doorknob or something like that when they went to enter someone's house.

"It's as if you made a candle with the wick on the outside (like a stick of wax wrapped in cotton). The melting wax is the fuel that keeps the burning wick under control. Substitute slowly melting body fat being rendered into the clothing wick, and you have Non-Spontaneous Human Combustion."

Someone set up a controlled atmosphere with a Pig wrapped in sheets to simulate this. They had a small room and a small amount of petrol to begin the burn. It took 7 hours and the flame never exceeded ~12 In.. After this 7 hour period, the pig was ash and other things that are common with SHC were present. The plastic on the TV had melted from the high room temps and such..

In other words; Something must have happened to trigger the inital flame then the Wick Effect took over. Right? Give it some thought...
Author:  Parade [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
POST MORE PICS! i cant look forem on the computer that im on!
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