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The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
https://w.yarrthepirate.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=14718		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  DeadLegend [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Took way too damn long.

The end.
Author:  Iolanthe [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Congratulations, guys! I'm so happy you finally got this son of a bitch fight down. <3
Author:  Ketrebu [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Zomgs, I recorded it too.



Took us over 2 months to put this one down with probably something like 8-10 hours working on it a week. These "win" videos you see everywhere make it all look easier than it really is.
Author:  Pamelita [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
AND MY AXE!

I mean to say, I too recorded it.

Edit: forgot to say...I forgot to set it so it didn't record our voice chat; so, sorry and stuff.
Author:  Ridere [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Congrats, everyone :)
Author:  Athel [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Grats guys
Author:  Kluya [ Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Wow excellent work guys!!! That fight looks intense, especially towards the end.
Author:  Iolanthe [ Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
I think it's my favourite fight. Can't wait to start farming it next week!
Author:  Spyder [ Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Great job guys and gals, looks like it was a hell of a fight. Well done.
Author:  Kayne [ Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
I recorded our win as well:
Author:  Iolanthe [ Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Lol kayne
Author:  Yarr [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
pffft, that looks super easy.
Author:  DeadLegend [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Among our many T13 failures, this one stood out for the number of emergency recoveries before the end and the closeness to victory despite them. I think it's still pretty exciting to look at.



It was also one of the very last before we won.
Author:  Ketrebu [ Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
I remember that run because it was also one of the (if not the) first "win" -- made it to the very end of the fight without too much mess and would have won if not for a death or two earlier in the fight.

Also:

1) There's nothing I like more than a good tank-death recovery. For most encounters you can even manage a healer death, but usually if one of your tanks goes down you're fucked. You raise and you hit provoke immediately, hoping that someone gives you some HP before the monster's first attack goes off. Wait any longer and you're likely to have two dead dps and a healer. Fun stuff.

2) These videos make me hate Alexander even more.
Author:  Corwin [ Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Ketrebu wrote:

2) These videos make me hate Alexander even more.
Author:  Ridere [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
I think I read the S-E, or Yoshi, or whomever, admitted they screwed the pooch with Alexander, but I don't recall hearing what they may do in the future to fix it, and hopefully it won't be too late.

Probably tuned it too high, due to being worried about those professional guilds out there. I liked Coil 1's difficulty. Coil 2 broke my spirits, so I personally felt it was a bit too annoying. Can't speak to Coil 3, as a result, but I do hope that they turn things around.
Author:  Ketrebu [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Ridere wrote:
admitted they screwed the pooch with Alexander

Oh boy, Ket's in a ranting mood. So, main problems with Alexander:
  • Tuned way too high. I think SE got into an e-peen match with the 2-3 "world first" groups. Upset that they had finished Final Coil in only about a week; they decided to make it hard as fuck. But unlike the challenging content in previous coil raids, the difficulty doesn't feel "fair". The DPS checks are too high, the battles are too long, and the mechanics having constantly unforgiving instant-wiping features meant you can't have a nice smooth progression through where you get better and better until you win. Nope, any one person makes a mistake and it's a wipe and reset.

    Just take a look at the Bahamut videos posted by Dead in this thread. The "almost win" video has a tank death and a couple of dps deaths and recoveries. Even the win video had a DPS die near the end. These are mistakes that are recoverable and don't end your fight. You might end up not having enough DPS to kill the boss in time, but at least you get to keep practicing the fight, and you even feel like you can still win if you just push a bit harder.

    But not in Alexander. No. No recovery, no mercy.

    There are servers where only a single party has ever beaten this shit, and that's ludicrous. They've admitted that they didn't think it through; they've admitted that not enough people are clearing it; they've admitted that they didn't test the fight enough; and they've even admitted that their testing team all used their "mains" to test it so none of the new Heavensward jobs were balanced properly!

    But what tops this bollocks off is that while SE acknowledge that it's "oops too hard", they refuse to adjust it, probably because they wouldn't want to upset their precious world first groups. Boo hoo.
  • Aesthetics. In theory being inside a steam-punk robot contraption for your dungeon should make for some pretty cool environments, but it just kinda fell flat. It's really hard to put your finger on exactly what's wrong here other than it just wasn't "cool" enough.

    I think everything else in Alexander contributes towards this particular problem though. It's hard to be impressed with the place when you're frustrated with it. Maybe if they start taking us inside "the core" or something they can start being a bit more fantastical with the designs.
  • Lack of carrot. The only reward for completing Alexander Savage was exactly the same gear we already had but dyeable. And since the gear wasn't particularly cool looking to begin with, it was just absolutely not worth the effort required for it. The ilvl was 10 levels higher? Barely any increase at all. Previously, coil gear has been about 20+ iLvls higher, and had completely unique models. The gear from all three tiers of coil is still some of the best looking in fact.
  • Story is balls. Making goblins the antagonists didn't have to be a bad idea, but it was. Goblins are generally comic relief and not very threatening. The coil story was genuinely interesting, and each zone you beat added more to the intrigue. By the time you get to Final Coil you start getting story production values that beat anything the "main story" had to offer.

    We went from creepy allagan cloning experiments, dragons, Bahamut, and the threat of the world being destroyed; to some goblin with a cat on his head, and an out-of-nowhere Au Ra treasure hunter who's just kinda not-there for something nobody has been given a real reason to care about.

    To top it off, everybody already knew the damn story. Which leads on to:
  • Fucked up release order. I have no qualms about the idea of an "easy/story mode" for the people who generally can't do raiding, but this is something that should have been added 6 months down the line, not 2-3 weeks before the real raid zone was added. Couple that with the fact that people spent those 2-3 weeks grinding the hell out of the story mode to get the gear from it and everybody was already sick of the place before Savage was even added.

    Moreso than the gear, a lot of people pushed through Coil because they wanted to see the next part of the story. But the messed up release order meant we already saw it this time; and ignoring the fact that it wasn't great, it removed one of the big reasons to bother with the raid.
  • And finally, SE have gone on to state that Alexander being tuned incorrectly is why the rest of the content since it was added has been scaled wrong. Why Diadem's gear gives nothing better but requires a shit-ton of mindless grinding. Why the relic quest was added way too late in the patch cycle, isn't better than existing weapons, and requires more grinding than any previous relic step before it despite being a new weapon. 3.1 was a real let down for a lot of people.

    Great, Alexander is so fucked up it messed up everything else too.

Honestly, ignoring Alexander for a bit, the biggest problem they have to face is that they've chased off a lot of their player base with their mishandling of the content since Heavensward. 2.0 had a bit of a content lull between it's launch and Christmas (when they added the Extreme primals and Crystal Tower) but nothing compares to that and the "nothing" between June and February of Heavensward.

For some crazy reason they released all of the content they had for the 3.0 patch series in the first month. We went from having i140ish gear from the end-game dungeons to having i210 gear from Alexander Savage in a month! Ravana EX was completely obsolete within 2 weeks of being added! And poor fucking Bismarck was obsolete BEFORE he was added by making Ravana's weapon better and releasing it at the same time! What the hell Square?! You could have spread this shit out and people wouldn't have been as damn bored.

Can they fix it for 3.2? Of course they can, but it's getting hard to put faith in them recently. It's a darn shame, because Heavensward itself was an amazing expansion, right up until you hit the level cap and finish the main story. They really dropped the ball with the end-game stuff.

And content lull? They really should have done something to make sure the level 50 content wasn't all rendered completely obsolete the moment the level cap was raised. They could have easily just made "level 60 versions" of all their existing primals and made them part of the relic quest. They could have done the same with the three Crystal Tower zones; add a level 60 version and make it necessary for the relic quest or weekly upgrade item farming. Bam, instant content. They don't need to bother redesigning the content at all, a lot of it is already good content, they just make it relevant again. I can't believe these are difficult ideas.

They're gonna need to really show of something amazing for 3.2 to convince people they need to start playing again. There's a live letter this weekend for showing off 3.2, and they better have something in store.
Author:  Kioko [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
I've only tried Savage 1 maybe thrice at most, so I'm not the best person to comment on it. But it's a bit of a let down that the savage mode is pretty much identical to the easy mode with maybe one new mechanic added to the fight. Most people ground the heck out of easy mode so they were expecting something different the way that the hard mode versions of old dungeons are differently designed than their predecessor. But no, they're the same thing you already saw umpteen times, only now you can't beat it. It makes you feel like saying, "why am I bothering with this one when I can go back to doing the easy one?"

But at this point I really don't want them to add a carrot to alex savage. I just don't want to do it. I did the easy one to death and want to do something different and more relaxed. There's a new range coming soon called Midas, and I'm curious how it will turn out. Will it be the same scheme or will they have made changes based on this feedback? They already acknowledged their follies but they keep back tracking on things they already apologized for and fixed. Such as the original relic's atma grind and forcing people to do fates as well as forcing people to do hunts for upgrade items. They apologized and relaxed those things and said they wouldn't do it again. Yet, very next relic all the same again with the original difficulty of obtaining it. I don't understand how they could say something was obviously bad design and poor choice of implementation, fix it, then reinstate it's original broken form as new content. Things like that make me not confident in Midas.
Author:  Ridere [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Yah, all of that sounds frustrating as hell.

The expansion was a ton of fun leveling up, and I enjoyed the storyline, and seeing Matoya and stuff was all pretty great. But the end-game, as you mentioned, left me feeling kind of lackluster. Everything was just turning more and more into a grind from when I stopped playing in 2.4, or whatever.

Gathering and crafting had a lot of obnoxious stuff. I kind of liked the being a jack of all trades when it came to that stuff. And they were pushing away from that with the later 2.x expansions, which made me sad.

I knew I wasn't going to want to do the savage alex stuff, after hearing about all the issues with it, but I guess I just couldn't cut it in end-game.

Ironically now I do other tedious stuff, like trying to platinum Disgaea games, but whatever. haha.
Author:  Whisp [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
The fact is, 95% of the game's content is obsolete entirely because they use this iLevel tier system. It's the sole reason I don't play. No goals are worth working toward when you could just skip a month and bypass obsolete content when you return. Why not just skip a year? Or five?
Author:  Soulguy [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Whisp wrote:
The fact is, 95% of the game's content is obsolete entirely because they use this iLevel tier system. It's the sole reason I don't play. No goals are worth working toward when you could just skip a month and bypass obsolete content when you return. Why not just skip a year? Or five?


I can relate to this too, working towards something only to have it replaced or rendered obsolete shortly after got old pretty quick. If I ever do decide to start playing again it'll be for the story.
Author:  DeadLegend [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Answer - CKD vs Bahamut
Ket wrote:
rant


From the minute they announced Goblins would be central to the Alex story I was worried. Alex had an excellent story in XI and I was afraid goblins would turn the whole thing to garbage. The story isn't even bad in xiv, it's non-existent.

Cid: It's a primal!

Ok.

Also, I went back and looked at some second coil videos. When we got to turn 9 I was only ilevel 93, only had three pieces above 90, the rest of the party was similarly geared. We got through anyway because, you know, it was possible.
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