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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:22 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:33 pm 
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lol thats awesome jong.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:18 pm 
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God my boyfriend is smart. lol


What youre dating someone behind my back?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:06 pm 
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In the farthest reaches of space anything can happen ;p considering our views on physics and what not are constantly challenged and changed with new discoveries found on a monthly basis.


I agree with that, but I doubt the next ground breaking physics discoveries will be made on Earth. :)


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Sure its not huge news (ok it is literally lol) but the ramifications of this are pretty substantial. I mean forever it was almost ruled out that Hyper massive stars could even form planets since they have massive solar winds and other big problems. Yet scientist found rings around 2 of the stars (only like 8 er something in the Milky Way).

I mean this could totally change the way we look at planet formation. Not to mention only a few months ago the detection of planets around a binary star system (two star solar system).


Do you read space.com too? lol I love that website, even if it make me feel like a nerd at time.

Yeah, those discoveries are pretty important in my opinion, but mostly because it's an unexplored domain. When we will have analysed 2000-3000 rings around stars, I doubt it will have the same impact on our theories if we discover a new star cluster or whatever.


About binary system, it was an interesting discovery, but those planets are most likely going to be desert without water. At least, if our previous theory about water coming from comet is right. There is also a problem with the star itself since most of them are unstable due to the proximity of their neighbour. Planet's temperature would varie too much to make them worthwhile for anything.


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The most important questions in science are "why?" and "how?" We need to know ‘How’ our solar system evolved and ‘Why’ we ended up with such a perfect planet. So we need to look at the big picture. We need to see how other solar systems form and evolve.


I couldn't agree more with that part. But I don't think it apply to the new specimens we discovered. :lol: We already have the "why" and "how" concerning them, or at least, the interesting one. Only reason they werent discovered before is because they are a pain in the ass to reach. The result of finding variants from a known species was expected. None of the new animal show particular behavior that was never observed multiple time already.



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Survival and evolution. These scientist are finding animals that were thought to not exist or thought to be so rare no one person would ever see them. Animals that are endangered and dying off are thriving in an area we never thought to look (or couldn’t look). While we thought they were dead, they actually survived. On the surface it doesn’t look important, but science needs to see these things for reasons like "Why did mammals survive when dinosaurs didn’t? How did they survive? How did they adapt? Why did we evolve emotions?" and questions like that. I’m not a scientist so I have no idea what else to say, but I’m sure there are lots of benefits.


Those species are far from being the only one who survived in a similar fashion. There is a ton of birds and animal who live exclusively on a particular island, or in a small region. Those specimens already offer the same data about evolution we can extract from the one in that article. Considering their accessibility is generally easier, I don't really see why those new species are interesting.
I'm not saying it's completely useless either. Knowing their existences is better than not knowing it, but it won't change our current data.

I understand the important for us to find how we were born, how living evolve in general. I just don't think this place will offer the data we need to answer that question. We already have thousand of specimens who does, and having a few thousands +6, according to mathematics and statistics change nothing.


Quote:
We also get to see just how differently animals have evolved here. This gives excellent fuel for the evolution vs. divine intervention debate. I mean what question is more important to us than "where did we come from?"

People who believe in divine intervention just refuse to see the facts :) I don't have any problem with people believing in God, as long their god exist only outside the big bang and our universe.


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Maybe I’m just spouting gibberish off because I’ve got 20 minutes of work left.


Nah, was a nice post. Even if I don't agree with everything.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:22 pm 
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Maybe this isn't quiiiite the same thing, but isnt that what blue sky research is all about? Working to increase our knowledge of things without any idea what it will lead to. Best example of that in recent times would be lasers. The people who developed them just did it because the scientific principles are interesting, but that lead to have 1000s of uses in today's world. Same could probably be argued about people who spend their lives studying particles 1/1000000000th the size of an electron, what the hell is the point? Then someone comes up with quantam computing.


No, it's not that. Researching on particle is useful because it allow you to understand thing we don't understand at the moment. It's also what could allow us one day to survive as a species, in a few billions years. Same goes with laser.

What would you say if I take a ship and go explore the Pacific to find a new land? I mean, if Columbus wouldn't have gone exploring, we wouldn't have discovered america. So, it's definitively good if I go explore too. Of course, I won't discovered another continent, but maybe there is a 10x10 meters island that was never added to any chart.

Is this island going to help us to figure how island are created in general? I doubt so. Is it going to add anything to our current sciences? Probably not.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:37 pm 
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so are you arguing that these discoveries aren't "new enough" to be worthwhile?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:59 pm 
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It's an interesting discovery. I mean the technology we have and the types of landmaps we have. We have mapped sections of plate tectonics, ocean current charts, jetstream charts, everything. And to think something like the tropical paradise got in under our radar is pretty amazing. i think it shows how much we still have to learn about this universe.

And yes this could potentially be very useful, like said before maybe new antibiotics. And that alone is huge. But it could also be nothing special, just more of the same. But we'll never know until someone finds it and checks it out.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:09 pm 
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Whisp wrote:
so are you arguing that these discoveries aren't "new enough" to be worthwhile?


I'm saying it's stupid to get excited over it if science advancement is the reason that make you excited about it. It's like mixing 2 chemical product to produce pretty color to amuse the audiance and pretend it's science.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:30 pm 
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Kaylia

You seriosly dont think that finding a new thriving eco system isnt exciting?

Do you even know what Science is?

Did you even read my post?

The discovery made headlines everywhere. I would hardly compare finding hundreds even thousands of new insects and animals to a grade 10 science experiment.

I mean seriously kaylia, its clear that youre probably the only person on this entire forum who feels that this is not a pretty major deal. I would also assume that the reason you feel this way is because you have a very limited understanding of science.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:11 am 
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You seriosly dont think that finding a new thriving eco system isnt exciting?

Yes, I do. I already said that in my very first post.


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Do you even know what Science is?

I do, and you?


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Did you even read my post?

I did and replied to it.


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The discovery made headlines everywhere. I would hardly compare finding hundreds even thousands of new insects and animals to a grade 10 science experiment.

The news don't need to be a quality news to make it in headlines. I'm not saying it's the case here, but media are exagerating the importance of such discovery.

I'm comparing it to a 10 grades science experiment because people get excited the same way. People pretend to like science, but just like the miscelleanous fact.



Quote:
I mean seriously kaylia, its clear that youre probably the only person on this entire forum who feels that this is not a pretty major deal. I would also assume that the reason you feel this way is because you have a very limited understanding of science.


Whatever. Think what you want, but it's not the case. I love science, physics mostly, but the rest also interest me. I've studied it for a while, went to study CS, but going back in physics next semester. Unless I manage to get a good job this summer.

If anything you mentioned (cures or new theories about evolution..etc) result from that discovery, come back here and laugh at me. I will be more than glad to say I was wrong.

I'm convinced, as "major" as it look, that this thing will have no impact on biology and other sciences. It will just add a few more entry to the database, without changing the result.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:06 am 
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Kaylia wrote:
I'm saying it's stupid to get excited

with all the bad news on tv and internet, why not just let people be excited about this? "stupid" is probably not the right word to use.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:28 am 
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Kaylia

Youre impossible. ](*,) Thats what it feels like trying to get a point across to you.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:32 pm 
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To Whisp

Grats for not quoting the whole line, making it lose its meaning. I'm sure you would be a great scientist if you were using such technique.



To Yarr

You would get your point accross if your opinion was based on solid result. Just because people like to be impressed by observations doesn't mean there was a science advancement. It doesn't mean those observations are new either.
Darwinism isn't something new, despite the fact they are trying to make it sound like it will be revolutionned.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:46 pm 
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Kaylia, stop posting no one agrees with you. Everyone is disagreeing with you.

That should tell you something about what youre trying to prove.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:57 pm 
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Yarr wrote:
Kaylia, stop posting no one agrees with you. Everyone is disagreeing with you.

That should tell you something about what youre trying to prove.


Thank you! We are all using evidence from articles, etc. prove our points and in my mind "mixing two colours to make another to amuse an audience" isn't enough proof for me to believe what Kaylia is saying.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:10 pm 
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So they found some new animals... the verdict is out whether any of it is useful science wise or not. Won't know until they finish studying everything lol.... new species do not always equal scientific advancement. Either way I don't care unless they found some plant that cures cancer or something as equally important. We don't know yet anyway. A whole lot of "ifs" there. Kaylia they can be excited all they want.. there is a possibility of something good coming from this. That is exciting.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:12 pm 
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Yarr wrote:
Kaylia, stop posting no one agrees with you. Everyone is disagreeing with you.

That should tell you something about what youre trying to prove.


There is 3 person in that thread arguing against me. On which, 0 probably ever studied sciences after high school. 2 of them also happen to be boyfriend/girfriend, which put them in serious bias when it come to defending the other person opinion.

No, I'm not worried about people disagreeing with me. I will be worried when they will start bringing proof that such discovery help science instead of trying to make me stop arguing using something unrelated to the topic.



Quote:
Thank you! We are all using evidence from articles, etc. prove our points and in my mind "mixing two colours to make another to amuse an audience" isn't enough proof for me to believe what Kaylia is saying.

Yes, because it's obviously the only thing I read.

Explain me how this discovery help us to understand evolution better, despite the thousands specimens we already have?

If you are analysing F=ma formula in physics, and you tried a 1kg, 3kg, 5kg mass. Do you really need to obtain the 2kg and 6kg to conclude anything? No. Same goes here.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:36 pm 
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Kaylia the Biomedical posibilities here alone are pretty exciting. Finding this many new specics is exciting to any scientist. Will it help the human race? Who knows, it could, it could end up being usless. However, this discovery is a pretty big deal. Whats exciting here is the possibilites. We have things infront of us that we never had before. The door is open to discover things we didnt know about. That is what science is about.

When was the last time we found a perfectly preserved eco-system that included thought to be exstinct animals and hundreds of new specices of animlas and instects?

Youre simply arguing your opinion Kaylia and Im done with it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:36 pm 
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at the very least this disovery is extremely important for cladistics

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:08 pm 
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How much you wanna bet the scientists are infected with some kind of new bio weapon from coming in contact/being near some new species, and they are gonna bring it back to everyone.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:44 pm 
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Yarr wrote:
Kaylia the Biomedical posibilities here alone are pretty exciting. Finding this many new specics is exciting to any scientist. Will it help the human race? Who knows, it could, it could end up being usless. However, this discovery is a pretty big deal. Whats exciting here is the possibilites. We have things infront of us that we never had before. The door is open to discover things we didnt know about. That is what science is about.

Why not getting excited later, when they will find the protein that cure cancer? Personally, I think it's like getting excited at the jackpot after buying a lotery ticket. The chance we find something of the sort there is slim, not to mention it's not better than finding it on the thousand of known bugs and animals that were never analyzed


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When was the last time we found a perfectly preserved eco-system that included thought to be exstinct animals and hundreds of new specices of animlas and instects?

"News" is pushing it a little. Almost all of them are small variation from another species. Some of them are more unique, but they still don't have trait that were never observed before

I can't tell when was the last eco system that was discovered, but I can tell you there is still many eco-system that were never studied.

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Youre simply arguing your opinion Kaylia and Im done with it.

And you're arguing what? fact?




Whisp wrote:
at the very least this disovery is extremely important for cladistics


Isn't cladistic just the act of gathering data related to ecosystem and the like and organize it?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:01 pm 
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its the categorization and interrelatedness of all species of life
its quite a daunting task
doing a half-ass or 99% job isn't the aim

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:29 pm 
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Yeah, that's what I thought.


I don't think 99% of the people reading the new are hardcore biologist who like cladistic (or even know what it is). But even for a biologist, those new information will most likely never be used.

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