I know right? I should go back and yell at my Philosophy teachers. But I HAVE read a lot of Kant, Nietzsche, Aristotle, the Stoics, Mill, Plato, and then just a lot of compilations that my teachers have put together. And those include a lot of newer people, such as Singer, Feldmann, Sullivan, Finnis, Thomson, etc etc.

But, I'm finally getting into Descartes, Hume, more Kant, Liebniz, and Pierce.

anyways, no matter how stupid some religious people can be, getting mad at them only compounds the problem. Being the bigger man isn't hating them back.

Faith is generally the antithesis of reason except in several cases, such as Descartes, Anselm, Kierkegaard, Dostoevsky etc

It still requires a slight leap of faith I think. Some people will argue science very very very adamantly. The idea of something better than oneself is just science!!! Brain impulses and whatnot, blah blah blah.

That statement right there is just plain ignorant. You can't lump a majority in due to a minority's actions. The majority of religious people I've met are normal every day people, very few are one sided as you make them.

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They all hold on to supremely irrational belief despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, which makes them very stupid in that capacity. Beyond that is in the case of the individual but it's not unfair to call religious belief itself stupidity. I'm not saying that I don't hold stupid beliefs either. Hell, I liked the second and third Matrix movies

I also liked those movies. But, in regards to the other statements; in my experiences the 'irrational beliefs' and the leaps of faith needed to follow aforementioned beliefs is a small trade for the benefits for some. It can turn their lives around, give them a supporting group to lean on when they need, so on and so forth. That's not the problem I had with the comment by Eternus, it was the generalization. Trying to sum up something as broad and complex as religion, into 'its followers are fucking stupid', pisses me off. Most of the people I've known in my life to be religious have, or are willing to admit a lot of it can seem far fetched, and some of the things they do can be perceived rather odd to people on the outside looking in. I'm not a religious scholar. I don't read religious text. Hell, I'm not even religious in the slightest. That comment simply made me want to slap someone.

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You missed the word "most" as in most religious people are fucking stupid. That is not a generalization. If I was generalizing... I would have said all religious people are fucking stupid. There are plenty of people who are spiritual but not religious. Religion is what happens when men get their hands on spirituality and pervert it for their own purposes and agenda.

From reading most of Nuku's posts, I have determined that he is most likely stupid. That isn't a generalization either.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

im sure you have said stupid shit from time to time, does that make you stupid too?

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FFXI - Yurichan: 75THF(Ret) / SC2 - Lawncare / XBOX - Zombie Sharks / PS3 - Zombie_Sharks

Hells yeah it does if I am generalizing. You totally missed the point. If most of what I say is stupid, then yes... I am stupid omgz. From time to time doesn't equal most of what I say though.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

Soooo spirituality is ok? But as soon as it becomes a "Religion" it's bad. You know.... because it's selfish.

If I wanted to be selfish, believe me, the last thing I would do is decide to be religious.

And what's the deal with "most people." Who the fuck cares about "most people." The fact is "most people" are dumb. Irregardless of religion.

Once it becomes an organized religion, it opens itself up to corruption by human leadership.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

Corruption is inevitable. But that's what's great about being Protestant (at least I think). It's not about everyone else, it's about me. I don't answer to anyone. I agree that a lot of churches become corrupt, mostly spiritually. I've never attended a church that has more than like 80 people, just because when it gets bigger than that the leader loses touch.

I agree, I think for the most part leadership becomes corrupt (see: FFXI) but that doesn't have anything to do with Religion, or spirituality, it has to do with human nature and the will to power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It has everything to do with religion. Religions are formed and run by humans. Just because you are a Protestant, it does not mean that you do not answer to anyone. It isn't just you and God, there are still intermediaries and church leadership. Though it is much better than having some douchebag in a pointy hat telling everyone what to believe.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

There are "Elders" sometimes. But I don't have to listen to them. I grew up on a church where the community is the leadership, and you take turns carrying out tasks on behalf of the church. There was never anyone you had to listen to. Even with most elders they hold meetings where the congregation meets with them to try and figure out what's right and what the church should do.

The reason it doesn't have anything to do with religion is because it IS a human construct. The bible says go to church, and mingle with fellow christians. It doesn't say "Make a cult and everyone listen to Bill."

That's a human thing, it's not a religion thing. I think you've already decided "Religion" is the same word as "Cult." So have fun with that.

No, spirituality and religion are one in the same. If Eternus wants to make the distinction then he's suddenly betrayed rationality himself and has indicated he just has some beef with religion.


edit: and about "power corrupting absolutely" I agree. And it just so happens that the church represents the most penultimate power because it ties peoples' ambitions, hopes, dreams, and contingencies of happiness into a hierarchical organization. None of this is paramount to the argument at hand though

Everything is a human construct for the most part. Religion, god, etc are all constructs of the human mind. Spirituality is just a connection that is made between the spiritual realm and a human. You could even say that the spiritual realm itself is a human construct. I would say that all religions are cults.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

Maybe I should've used the word prejudice, or postulate? Perhaps those fit more with what I was going for. I didn't miss you using most, either.



Besides... You kinda proved the point I was making with this

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Too bad the proof you are holding on to is a joke post. Do you think I honestly start off super serious posts with the phrase "Hells yeah". Most = majority. Most religious people are dumb as fuck, sorry to break it to you. I have been to plenty of different churches of various denominations, and the one thing they seemingly have in common is stupidity. That doesn't mean there aren't intelligent people there, just that most of the churchgoers come across as ignorant dumbfucks.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

Well, in that post you proved Denchi's point.

Since you got uppity about me missing "Most", I guess I should throw a shit fit about missing me mentioning "That I've met". Oh, well. Can't debate something with a narrow minded pretentious asshat.

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There is no god or devil. When you die nothing happens, that's the end.

YEAH!

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Quoted for absolute fucking truth lol.

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Most normal every day people are indeed stupid. Nuku included. Not knowing the difference between bias, prejudice and generalizing might qualify one as being stupid. I would take the majority of your previous posts on this board as evidence of your lack of intelligence. It can go back years.

I didn't miss the fact that your sample size is limited to people that you have met. I didn't throw a shit fit either lol. Arguing on teh internets is serious business indeed.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

You're just as stupid as a religious "cultist" because you believe in a "spiritual realm" contrary to evidence or rationality. So I suggest you stop the hypocrisy now admiral

arguing over religion is kinda pointless, since it's all a matter of opinion. You could say someone is ignorant and stupid and mindless for choosing to wear black shoes that day, but if wearing black shoes makes that person happy, why the fuck should you give a fuck? Were you friends with Heath Ledger? Are you a bereaved relative? Does someone else's opinion (regardless of how it makes you feel or want to judge that person) REALLY effect your life? More importantly, is bickering about it on a messageboard that maybe at the most sees 10 people on it everyday really going to change anything? I know for a fact I wouldn't change what shoes I feel like wearing just because some cockass on a messageboard told me he thinks I'm an idiot for wearing them. When it comes to religion we should all just employ a "live and let live" policy (and that goes for gaybashing christians too.) It's all this judging and believing that your religion should be practiced by everyone that gets people in trouble (isn't that like the main underlying cause of all the problems in the middle east?) get the fuck over it people

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Jimbean, you've misunderstood the discussion.