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 Post subject: So what is to blame?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:47 am 
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Is the cannibis to blame, or is the video game to blame, how about the fact that this guy's a paranoid schizo...huh?!?! how about that!!?!?

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... =1770&ct=5

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teenager who was crazed by high-strength cannabis butchered a grandmother after 'voices in his head' told him to stab a woman.

Ezekiel Maxwell, a paranoid schizophrenic, launched the horrific attack after years of smoking super-strength 'skunk weed'.

The 17-year-old claimed 'gangster voices' from the ultra-violent computer game Grand Theft Auto had set him on a mission to stab a black woman.

He is the second teenage cannabis addict in a month to be found guilty of killing others after smoking the substance. Thomas Palmer, 18, was jailed for life for murdering his two friends with a hunting knife near their homes in Wokingham, Berkshire.

Maxwell prowled the streets with a kitchen knife until he came across Carmelita Tulloch

Maxwell prowled the streets with a kitchen knife until he came across Carmelita Tulloch as she walked to her job at a photocopying firm.

He stabbed her seven times, leaving her to die in a pool of blood as he fled home to his family. The case highlights the dangers of the highly potent 'skunk'.

The number of under-18s treated for smoking the drug has doubled to nearly 10,000 in a year and medical experts said the link between it and mental health problems is now impossible to ignore.

Maxwell attacked 51-year-old Mrs Tulloch on September 5 last year after a night smoking skunk and playing Grand Theft Auto.

He believed he was one of the principal characters called Carl Johnson, who carries a knife in the Playstation game, Croydon Crown Court was told.

Judge Warwick McKinnon said it was "a vile and quite senseless killing of an entirely innocent woman".

Simon Denison, prosecuting, told the court: "Maxwell had been planning to stab a woman for seven days, it had to be a black Afro-Caribbean woman. He didn't know why he had done it, he just had to do it."

"He described the voices as taking over his thoughts and his body. They made him do things like cut his hair so he looked more like a gangster.

"Maxwell said in the months before the killing he was playing Grand Theft Auto to the exclusion of anything else.

"He had smoked cannabis the night before, he took a knife from the kitchen and went out to stab someone. After he stabbed Mrs Tulloch he ran home and told his mother what he had done.

"The psychiatric assessment is that he is a great risk to others and will be for many years."

Maxwell lived 500 yards away from Mrs Tulloch on the same housing estate in Kennington, South London. He attacked her within five minutes walk of her home.

The youngster started smoking cannabis and skunk as well as taking cocaine at 14. He had previously been given cautions for possessing cannabis and has two convictions for mugging and assault.

Maxwell said he started hearing voices after smoking the drug and was referred to a psychiatric team by his GP in June last year.

He was prescribed anti-psychotic drugs and his case was reviewed four times. It was due to be considered again the day after he attacked Mrs Tulloch.

Instead, Maxwell went to a police station with his uncle and solicitor and handed himself in. He told officers: "I am given medication for my head and eyes, I don't know why I have been told to take this medication. I have not taken it for two weeks.

"On September 4 I played Grand Theft Auto until late. When I got up I felt a bit unhappy and aggressive. "I went out of the house at about 10am."

"I have a knife with me. I didn't know why I had a knife, I saw a woman, I stabbed her with the knife, I stabbed her three times, there was a lot of blood. After I stabbed the woman I ran home."

Maxwell has since been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Yesterday he was detained indefinitely under the Mental Health Act after pleading guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.

Paul Jenkins, chief executive of mental health charity Rethink, said: 'While there can be several triggers for mental illness, we know that if used by people under 18, cannabis doubles the risk of psychosis.

Professor John Henry, a clinical toxicologist, said: "People are beginning to realise that cannabis is not the puff and relax substance that people used to use."

Studies show there is an increased instance of schizophrenia in cannabis users, in some people as much as a ten-Marjorie Wallace, Chief Executive of mental health charity SANE, said: "This has all the hallmarks of similar stories where a paranoid schizophrenic has not taken medication but has used cannabis.

"Cannabis, especially skunk, can act as a trigger to psychotic relapse in which someone may lose touch with reality and become a serious risk to himself and others.

"We expect the inquiry into this case will reveal the same faultlines underlying many of the 55 homicides involving mental illness each year."

Mrs Tulloch, a receptionist, was married to Prince, 42, and had two adult daughters, Claudia and Andrea, from a previous marriage and a threeyearold granddaughter called Tianna.

Her sister Carol Smith said: "Someone has to take responsibility, how can he commit a crime like that and no one is responsible?

"There need to be regular check-ups for people like him."



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:27 am 
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thats fucking press. is trying to make GTA make look bad, So damn gov. can ban that damn game. And others blood gore games.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:49 am 
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I would not blame the pot, or the game, i blame the person, when you can no longer distinguish right or wrong, real life or a game, then you need to kill you self.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:02 am 
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i again blame the parents. He started cocaine at 14?! The fuck man, where the hell are the parents to attend to his needs. The Kid already had a prior history of trouble. You are telling me, they couldn't see he was going to do something wrong.?

Its so easy to blame a video game. It was his fault and the parents. He had enough control over himself that after stabbing that poor lady 7 times he ran home like a pussy. I swear idiots like that should be put to death

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:18 am 
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i blame the parents, when you name your kid ezekiel these things are bound to happen

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:38 am 
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Mikey wrote:
Its so easy to blame a video game. It was his fault and the parents. He had enough control over himself that after stabbing that poor lady 7 times he ran home like a pussy. I swear idiots like that should be put to death

Mirrors my thoughts. Does the UK have the death penalty?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:42 am 
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The parents should have watched the punk closer that is for sure. Really I have never felt violent due to weed and I have been smoking "skunk" weed for probably 12 years lol. This must have triggered him into a schizo episode and he started hearing voices. Maybe that is all a lie and he is just trying to pass the buck, and in fact is just an evil little fucker who deserves death. Blame GTA, weed, etc... I know plenty of people who have partaken in the same things and they don't go around stabbing people. He planned it for 7 days, so it was premeditated and really he has no excuse imo.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:22 am 
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There are a metric shitton of kids who try and blame Grand Theft Auto. It reminds me of how in South Park they blamed smoking on the fact that the cigarette companies were controlling them with propaganda. Interestingly enough, the parents are reacting the same way they would on th eshow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:35 pm 
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weed isnt to blame, media isnt to blame, video games or movies arent to blame.. FUCKING PARENTS are to blame..

i love violence in video games, theres nothing more fun than blowing someones head off with a grenade launcher in a video game.. or killing an innocent person with a 9 mil in a video game, do i do it irl, fuck no, my PARENTS taught me better.. i had access to guns for 4 years of my life.. (military, it was my job) i didnt go around killing random people wtf..

but i guess it has also to do with a persons mental state as well..

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:42 pm 
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DeadLegend wrote:
Mikey wrote:
Its so easy to blame a video game. It was his fault and the parents. He had enough control over himself that after stabbing that poor lady 7 times he ran home like a pussy. I swear idiots like that should be put to death

Mirrors my thoughts. Does the UK have the death penalty?



Yea I thought the same thing.

And yes we do............but only for treason.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:36 pm 
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Oh yawn.

We're discussing the death penalty in my Applied Ethics class, very interesting stuff. Retribution vs. Rehibilitation. Does anyone ever lose their right to life? The death penalty is irreversable, what if we put an innocent person to death?

Michigan banned the death penalty after they found out through DNA evidence that they had wrongly executed 3 people in a row.

Anyways, totally detracting from the thread. gotta go eat


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:34 pm 
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That's what sucks, cases like that take away the case of people like this guy and Brian Nichols (the guy in Atlanta that shot up a courtroom, killed like 2 people and escaped, now he has a 2 million dollar defense team of our tax dollars and all sorts of other shit when seriously I think a 5 cent bullet should be all he should get since it's such a numerous witness, everyone knows he did it open-shut case).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:05 pm 
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Yeah, that's what I think. I think the death penalty should be reserved for those types of cases where there is no disputing whether or not the person did it. It doesn't have to be the solution for EVERY case, but it can be easy enough for a case like you mentioned.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:48 pm 
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Denchi wrote:
Yeah, that's what I think. I think the death penalty should be reserved for those types of cases where there is no disputing whether or not the person did it. It doesn't have to be the solution for EVERY case, but it can be easy enough for a case like you mentioned.


The point of the justice system is to establish unanimity in guiltiness or innocence, lol


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:00 pm 
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Wow, ponuh has the whole justice system figured out. I guess there's nothing to discuss anymore


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:22 pm 
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no, and I wanted to keep this drama free but apparently you don't. What I meant to say was, "Are you fucking retarded? "only kill those convicts who we're SURE are guilty". That's got to be one of the worst fucking things I've ever heard in quite awhile."


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:34 pm 
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Well again, you must have all the answers, because you obviously weren't the one coming in here acting like a smartass (which is normal for you anyways) and then thinking you have all the answers.

I just presented you with a case where the death penalty was wrongfully carried out on innocent people, and the main reason why Michigan did away with it. The idea that convicting people can never be 100% accurate is one of the main reasons why people oppose it. And than you come in here spouting "Well of COURSE YOU WOULD TRY TO KILL ONLY GUILTY PEOPLE LOLZ" adding absolutely nothing to the conversation and only antogonizing.

I think if, in the justice system, we were to misuse the death penalty then it shouldn't be allowed. I also think that in certain cases we can be sure of the guilty party, then it should be allowed, and I think there are such cases. But that's putting a lot of faith in random juries' hands, which I don't think we can do with our justice system. So something I would endorse is professional juries.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:38 pm 
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Prosecutors have to seek the death penalty. Juries don't get to arbitrarily decide to kill someone. They have to be tried seperately for the death penalty because there should not be one man that can be Judge and Executioner.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:46 pm 
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This wasn't about the death penalty denchi. lol

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:14 am 
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Ponuh wrote:
There should not be one man that can be Judge and Executioner.


you mean this one? lol
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:15 am 
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Our justice system is pretty flawed imo. Should just shoot the guy in the head, easy for me to agree with Supa on that one. We are so inefficient with prisoners on death row, even ones that were on video tape or have multiple witnesses saying they did it. People sit there for years and leech tax dollars when they should be dead. Killing people that were wrongly convicted is bad, but that is extremely rare. Every person who I have met that has been to prison has told me they weren't convicts, but just inmates. They all tell you they were innocent. Most of them aren't, and I am willing to sacrifice a few innocents to expedite the death of hundreds of real killers on death row. There is a reason why countries with stiffer death penalties than ours have much lower murder rates (Singapore hasn't had a murder in several years last I read lol).

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:49 am 
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Eternus wrote:
Our justice system is pretty flawed imo. Should just shoot the guy in the head, easy for me to agree with Supa on that one. We are so inefficient with prisoners on death row, even ones that were on video tape or have multiple witnesses saying they did it. People sit there for years and leech tax dollars when they should be dead. Killing people that were wrongly convicted is bad, but that is extremely rare. Every person who I have met that has been to prison has told me they weren't convicts, but just inmates. They all tell you they were innocent. Most of them aren't, and I am willing to sacrifice a few innocents to expedite the death of hundreds of real killers on death row. There is a reason why countries with stiffer death penalties than ours have much lower murder rates (Singapore hasn't had a murder in several years last I read lol).


I feel the exact same way. I don't think people are wrongly convicted for murder very often in America (the opposite if anything). We should have a more harsh death penalty and shouldn't keep people on fucking death row for so long. They should be shot in the head after convicted.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:45 pm 
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not to mention prisons are overpacked as it is and it's our tax dollars that are feeding and housing these mofos and paying for their exercise equipment. If anything cold-blooded killers who can't function in society ought to be cleaned out, just to make room for all the drug convictions.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:29 pm 
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Lets not get started on people in prison on marajuana charges and tax dollars we could save by decriminalizing marajuana.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:41 pm 
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drug charges are bullshit imo, waste of prison space and tax dollars, unless it's like bigtime drug traffickers who're making millions of dollars a month

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