The destruction of Greece and Rome is not in the Bible. This is all historical. The reason we disagree with Communism, despite the fact that in it's purist form it works, is because in history it does not work; therefore, in our mind Communism = doesn't work.

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Dark is banned from ever touching my computer again.

DELETED BECAUSE I WAS FUCKING STUPID

Communism has NEVER been implimented properly. Proper communism never has a central government.

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Dark is banned from ever touching my computer again.

DELETED BECAUSE I WAS FUCKING STUPID

communism is more likely to succeed on a smale scale, like a commune, where everyone knows one another.

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

Communism is a goverment installed by a revolution and...killing of all government officials, basically. Then the country will be run by the people, with no leaders. For the people, by the people. No one becomes rich, everyone lifts their weight.

It doesn't work here, because we are not pure industry, like Russia was.

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Dark is banned from ever touching my computer again.

DELETED BECAUSE I WAS FUCKING STUPID

Umm, how about our very own Lt. General William Boykin, appointed by our federal government to head up our hunt for Osama?

-"I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."
http://www.why-war.com/news/read.php?id=3602&printme

You kind of made my point for me

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

Former commander. He had nothing to do with this war.

And he's the most ignorant christian I have ever seen on the issue of this war. He's a bad man

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Dark is banned from ever touching my computer again.

ok fair enough. how about a quote from good ol' G-Dubya
- http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShAr ... &listSrc=Y

Um, so now we know why he struck Iraq...

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

First of all, no professional/medical psycological community equates homosexuality with descrution, on any level. Historically speaking your point is invalid as it is a matter of coincidence. Every one of those societies also happened to have pillows, therefore all societies with pillows are going to fall. Its a non-sensical comparison.

Also, psychology is based on facts. The entire study can be boiled down to the basic premise of stimulus and response. Given conditions A a entity will react in an expected manner. This isn't Voodoo economics, its historical reference for the purpose of behavioural trending.

Please present the proof that children growning up in homosexual households grow up to be less of a person than the 'average' person. Not one artical I would venture to guess could be produced from any medical journal making that claim and proving it.

The communist manifesto never states that a central government cannot exist. Marx made the point that central government was paramount to the perfection of communist practice. Marx also made the point that communisim is non-competitive, and in a competitive global theater communisim will lose.

It is reasonable to assume that a healthy, happy, loving couple would raise a perfectly healthy child regardless if that couple is gay. Your right however, the burden would be the social stigma of having homosexual parents, which only exemplifies the prejudice.

I don't think the main focus of this thread is to change anyone's mind. I would like to see it as a place you can view other points of views and decide what you like for yourself.

Regarding "gay marriage" vs. "civil union", I believe the difference is in the definition. It's also what came from the Bible. (I am a Buddhist). Personally I would like to think "marriage" is meant for a man and a woman. Civil union is for everything else. However, I do believe that it's only a matter of time until gay marriage becomes legal. It's just how the society will change over the years like how women can vote now etc.



Only thing I have against Kerry is that he never once answer directlywhen he's asked how he's going to do the things he wants to do or what his plans really are. Until he can tell me how he can reduce tax while providing prescription drugs to all senior citizens he will not have my vote.

Just a point of clarification, marriage was a practice that existed prior to christianity.

*Edit*
These marriages were civil in nature, not nessesarily faith or religiously based.
*End Edit*

What we commonly define as marriage has it's beginnings in the early forms of christianity, but even then it was not called marriage. Prior to that time, there existed what people now consider to be marriages, but they were not called as much either. The word etymology of the word marriage comes the vernacular latin word maritaticum, and didn't specifically come into use to actually describe the ceremony etc.. until the middle ages.

It's misleading to say marriages existed before the word even existed. It would be more accurate to say that unions between a man and a woman have existed for millennia.

I don't think the biggest threat to the sanctity of marriage is homosexuality, I think it is......Britney Spears and Jennifer Lopez. Just joking!! I stole that joke from the View! (I know, I'm a geek for watching the View).

i tend to think of the history of marriage as the history of any govt-sanctioned monogamous bond between two humans rather than just the history of the word marriage

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

If you just want to get into the concept of marriage, than you delve into the area of civil unions. I don't think most people have a problem with gays getting involved in civil unions as that's a matter for the government (secular) rather than for the church. What most who oppose gay marriage are having a problem with is that they want to call it "marriage" which is encroaching on their sacred little world.

That was supposed to be my point, I was unclear however. I tend to shed the specificity of reference to a thing as having an impact on the nature of a thing. Ergo a marriage, being the civil bond between two persons, possbily bereft of religious ceremony or purpose is still what it is regardless of a term used to reference that 'thing'. So I can still call an apple and apple even though such produce existed prior to that words conception or evolution and still assert that such produce did in fact exist prior to such a time.

Right, but the word marriage is used by civil authorities to offically recognize the union of two persons. It is not specific to christianity. If the various denominations wish to reject thier religious ceremonies to homosexual couples, well that is each instituions problem. As for federal consideration a marriage licecnce should not be denied to anyone based on sexual orientation because marriage, by law, is a civil mechanisim not a religious. The church can not wed people whom do not have a licence and have that marriage recognized by the state or government.

how about we quiz anyone who tries to get married, and deny the right to muslims, jews, buddhists, hindus, daoists, shintos, zoroastrians, sikhs, jains, polythesists, animists, gays, bi's, sexchangers, mutants, blasphemes, sodomists, thieves, divorcees, pigeaters, sinners, atheists, and sarcastic cynics. we can call those civil unions and deny them equal financial and semantical rights. only then would it be fair and equal to deny gays a marriage because they don't fit the christian definition. if marriage is christian-only, then the kailyn-peejo marriage wouldn't even count. christians trying to claim marriage as their own idea isn't worth sticking up for.

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

Wrong, that's not quoting Bush, that's Quoting someone else who is quoting something without proof.


What, you think I won't check the link? [/quote]

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Dark is banned from ever touching my computer again.

Marriage didn't only exist in Christians world. Marriage exists way before that and anywhere else in the world. However, it was always a man and a woman (each time when there's a marriage). In old Chinese history, there were rich men with multiple wives, but every time they marry a new wife, it's always a man and a woman. Hence, marriage should only be between a man and a woman regardless what their religions are. Personally I could careless what gay couples call it (gay marriage or civil union), but if someone told me two people got married, I'd immediately assume a man and a woman got married.

Kailyn and Peejo are going to move to China, and Kai is gonna pimp himself out. Hoho.