zenshin is ok, not too powerful, but it works. It really helps if you sub thf or rng cuz you get an extra attack if you miss the first. but just because you miss the first doesnt mean you get the hit the second time. as for that necklace, i dreamed about it last night... not really :P

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Notice how I wasn't referring to end game damage. ;p

RNG do the best damage on end game mobs, it's true. That's why Kirin is a joke with anything over 4 RNG. In terms of XP post 70 other jobs do comparable if not better damage.

Other jobs, WAR in particular pick their subjobs according to survivablity. The general subs for WAR are /thf and /nin. Why? Because it's easier to survive either through sneak/trick or utsusemi. Can a WAR take hits better than a RNG? Yeah, but they can also get raped fairly quickly as well.

In an XP pt situation, saying that RNG gets their best ws at 55 doesn't make them gimped. Under that assumption WAR would be gimped because they get their best damage dealing WS at 55, (rampage,) and NIN would be a gimped damage dealer, (yes NIN can be DD,) because they get blade: jin at I think level 60. With weapons, wouldn't the total damage from the bow and the arrow be considered for damage dealt? I would hardly cry about having access to 90+ total damage on weapons at level 55. (Ebow + scorpion arrow is 95 dmg, which is two less than a DRKs level level 73 weapon.) I hardly call that gimped. lol

RNG are early on the best damage dealers because they have access to better gear and certain job traits early on, (like... a ton of accuracy bonus traits,) as opposed to other jobs who have to wait for certain items before they start to shine like haubergeon/s.harness/etc.

But like you said, you're biased. ;p

i Agree :P

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**Life is a game,it's ment to be played**

RNG/NIN║RNG/NIN(Future Goal)║NIN/WAR(Future Goal)

Not quite right. DRK sub THF in order to prevent hate from shifting and placing all of their own DMG on someone else. I think that can be considered a survival tactic. Also DRK is the only job whose main ability actually hurts them as opposed to barrage/sharpshot/whatever. Most DRKs are forced to not even use their best JA, and are stuck using only for WS and clicking it off after. And no double attack hurts DPS more than people think (such as found in /war or /nin). THF sub just also happens to allow DRK to be a utility damage dealer rather than just pure DD like RNG.

Haha, very good points. But war/thf is a better DD than war/nin and war/nin can tank (thus not really needing to be a DD since they're tanking capabilites are usefull). They do get steel cyclone which with sata and 300tp (much like drk WS's) can be quite nice. War can also use many other weapons, they can get almost every endgame WS I believe. Rng's get emp arrow and detonator, both which chain the same as arching/heavy and do less dmg regardless of TP :\ If arching > emp arrow chained light I wouldn't complain. But honestly what is the point of that Skill? So sad heh.

Oh and I agree nin can be a DD endgame. Dtec has shown me some nice Jin numbers, i've seen almost 1k Jin on Aura Weapons I believe. Don't remember if that was with bard or not.

I do agree with you on endgame XP. Other jobs do catch up a bit to rng's, but I don't think they surpass them.

I'm not arguing the productivity or usefullness of other jobs, just all out pure dmg of rng vs all.

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Actually, I sub nin all the time for the same reason: I pull a lot of hate. The Aura Pot comparison is kinda bad, MNK get the same bonus on those as we do bones.

I was being sarcastic btw. RNG are overpowered but so is MNK but I don't think either should be nerfed. :P

I Don't care to try and keep up with Jong's damage at events (mainly because my gear sucks ass) but each job has it's high points.

*slightly edited*

I'm sure you've been in an all rng pt. Or hell you know as a RNG you tank Kirin more than the PLD do half the time. /nin makes anyone a utility job (capable of doing a bit of both.) *shrug*

You're right, that is a good point about soul/last. But to my knowledge drk's sub thf at 65ish to boost dmg for Cross/Spinning, not so much to benefit the party (which it does) but it also increases WS dmg. Whether or not this increases overall DOT dmg I won't argue because I really don't know which does more drk/thf or drk/war or drk/sam.

My argument about rng's and subbing nin though is this. You take a rng and any other job. Let them choose any subjob they want and they won't die. Just choose based on overall dmg over time. Rng would choose /sam or /war and would do far more dmg than any other class.

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Huh? I was talking about XP mobs like you mentioned. What does Jong tanking Faf have to do with anything? lol You lost me SS :D

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Yeah I edited my post a bit. And I included some God/HNM stuff, yeah.

But I think anyone with /nin has some sort of tanking potential as long as they can keep hate. It's just a matter of skill. ;p PLD/NIN can tank, and I've personally tanked as a RDM/NIN (just for kicks)

It actually decreases DoT significantly. DRK is the one of the few melee that lose out on any chance of having a quick TP gaining JA (ie. Meditate, Barrage) or JT (ie. Double/Triple Attack, Kick Attacks, Zanshin). /THF significantly weakens a DRKs damage output by alot.

And I believe a hardcore samurai/ranger could easily outdamage a ranger/warrior or /samurai for DPS/DoT. I think Tavalin is the only really nicely equipped SAM I've seen. Or at least on the road to being well equipped. I haven't seen him in a long time. lol Because as it's known, Sidewinder is the best WS for a ranged weapon.

That's true I never thought about the lack of quick TP gain for DRK.

Actually i'd love to see some sam/rng endgame dmg. Nobody really likes sam and if they do they want sam/thf or /war. I also think sam/rng with sushi would be some kickass dmg on gods and kirin. Not to mention even faster TP gain for SC's on Kirin/Gods.

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Ya, that's why I hold Samurai as the most powerful unappreciated job in the game hands down. I have the utmost respect for samurai who make it to end-game for that reason. They have a bitch of a time getting parties. It also doesn't help that Tachi: Enpi is one of their best GTK WS until 60+.

Yea, I was generally under the impression that DRKs subbed thf for one main reason...so they dont get themselves killed. In exp parties I get paired up with a drk for skillchains more often than not, so I've payed attention to them for a long time. The thf sub really does hurt their damage output, and using a greatsword (which they always do for wheeling thrust > spinning slash) does as well. As a dragoon I definitely do more DoT than any drk i've been paired with, their WS just do a lot more damage heh.

Oh, and from what I can gather about the elemental Obi pieces, the waist pieces, they make it so the user always has the benefits of that particular day. For example, with the Fire Obi equipped, fire spells will do more damage, ice should do less damage, and anything else affected by the day will be affected as well. The main draw to this for me is, the Mighty Lance, which, on firesday, has a DMG rating of 99...so with the fire obi equipped along with a Mighty Lance, I have a weapon with DMG: 99 all the time

So yea, I'll have Sea access in a few days, anyone want to help me get the organs i need? :P

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Havok~San'd Rank 10~ZM DONE~CoP DONE
DRG75 WAR75 NIN37 THF37 SAM37 WHM36

Deffinately once you get Ni you have some type of tanking potential. But /nin isn't as good of a sub for DD as /thf or /sam or /war is what I meant.

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Wow is that true? Hmm...that would make some of the items in the game with day only affects alot more usefull.

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About endgame WS Murph, it's not true. Rampage is the only one worth using unless mage are whining to get a SC other than disto :P

Steelcyclone is nice at high TP, but g.axe arent too useful in xp pt, actually, they are rarely useful at all.

As for nin sub, it increase both damage and capacity to survive. I usually end up with hate more often than not

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

thanks for staying on topic guys:P

as for ppl not liking samurai, you can all go to hell... many parties i have been in i have only bee 2%shy of rng damage in exp, and yes samurai are very powerful. As for Tavalin being the best equipped samurai, well... lets just say im almost there (sam/rng and working in my archery)...

and to all you ppl that just get rngs for exp cuz they rock, go die

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Havok, you're totally right about the greatsword thing. I personally fucking hate them. Spinning Slash is the most over-rated DRK WS (next to Guillotine) there is. I spent forever skilling up to get it, and once I did, my perm PT was like, "Yea, let's not have you use that." Granted my equip sucked something awful back then. My Greatsword skill is 269 and my Scythe skill is 293 (AA earring and merits). Scythe is definetely my prefered weapon.

Another thing that hurts DRK DoT is that we're the only DD that has actual magic. Even though we get shit elemental spells, DRK Elemental Magic skill caps higher than RDM. The Absorb line of spells are a really neat set of de-buffs that help the entire PT as well as the DRK, it's a shame they take forever to cast and most DRKs would just rather keep trying to swing instead of putting time aside to debuff.

I don't even know why we're chatting about this here. But it is interesting. lol

Edit: Gavin, like I said, I haven't seen him in awhile, so. Haha, even nicely equipped players slip up from time to time in what they wear. I <3 Samurai.

Edit2: Maybe after I get some buffer on my SMN I'll go try to farm some gorgets. And report back. The only thing is, alot of the end-game WS are "Void" element or physical, as is the case with Spiral Hell. Not too sure if it will enhance the DMG on it. ;/

That's very true for XP. But I was just arguing they WAR atleast get an endgame WS that is slightly usefull at 300TP SATA Steel Cylcone is decent on gods. I agree GA isn't that great for XP. Just saying that rng's endgame WS's have no purpose whatsoever.

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I will have to present you my good friend "utsusemi: ichi" :D
This thing eat half of my DoT when I'm tanking or getting hate.

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

I would trade my slightly useful on god 300% WS against a lv 55 very efficient WS against everything :D


Btw, Spirith within do as much 3/4 of the time on God

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

Hey atleast you guys don't have to hit a button everytime you want to attack, and can cast while attacking. Try tanking as a rng... omg it sucks! :D

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Haha, good point.

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MNKs can just auto-attack. How I envy them.