even if they said they can, it just doesn't seem like they care =/

keep it up SE, just making me glad that i dont give you my money on a monthly basis anymore, bunch of fucking morons.

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you quit sal?

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Job 10: 20
The mikey's have a plan. Djay isn't all powerful.

no he pays on a semi monthly basis now

no one quits that goddamn game, no one.

That's actually what I started thinking partway through reading this. Never seen any screenshots of any GM being quite as nasty as that, not to mention that they're usually to stupid to sound as intelligent as that on the fly.

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*RNG75* WAR42 NIN37 SAM30 SMN19 BLM18 WHM14
DYNAMIS - XARCABARD INTERLOPER x 2
Windurst Rank 10 ~ San d'Oria Rank 1 ~ *Bastok Rank 6*
Zilart: Complete ~ CoP: Complete

I think SE is just trying to scare us, i believe if they try to run some type of scan on our files without our consent that's considered illegal.

but meh w/e happens, happens its their dumbass fault if they ban 1/3-1/2 of us and loose like 1/2 their income

Judgin by the logs the player was probably braggin about the new windower,

Omg i got the new windower.
It shows tp , hp , and etc

Somebody probably reported him and the gm just reviewed the logs. The player just confessed because the gm knew what hack and features he had on. Gm prob just reviewed the chat log and gave the impression he knew what hack the player used.

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it's an invasion of privacy for them to detect you using a windower. it's a 3rd party program and therefore is on your comp.. what is SE doing on your comp? that right there is a lawsuit on a few levels. :P

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The fact is that it is, indeed, illegal for any company to write software that scans your PC without your express consent. Furthermore, Archbell's windower does not, in fact, change the way FFXI operates in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. The ability to ALT+TAB is a modification of DirectX, if I am correct, so if anybody has legal issues with it, it would be Microsoft. And they allow people to write DirectX APIs all the time, so meh. Perhaps I am wrong in the DirectX bit, but the gist is that the Archbell windower does not actually modify any of the SquareEnix files that are installed on the machine. SquareEnix cannot take any legal action against anything that doesn't modify their files.

As for the change allowing TP to be seen and whatnot, again, not a change to the way FFXI functions. The numbers you see in FFXI when using this windower are an OVERLAY, nothing more. The GUI of FFXI is in no way affected. The TP information is broadcast to all clients, for some unknown reason; if SE wants to fix that, then they just need to make it so that information is not broadcast. If they didn't want the client to know this information, it shouldn't be accessible.

If they implemented ANY sort of function in the FFXI client that could scan your PC for files associated with Windowers, and started banning people they found using it, what they would end up getting is a class action suit. And unlike Spyware companies, SquareEnix would not be a difficult target to find.

Personally, I think their approach to FFXI security is absurd. They are using obscurity for security, and as the saying goes, "Security through obscurity is no security at all". People find ways around it, in this case, simply ways to make the game less cumbersome.

A good example of the correct approach a company should use towards 3rd Party programs is how Turbine/MS handled the Decal program for Asheron's Call. It ended up making the game more accessible to a wider range of people, and honestly, it was one of the things I liked most about the game. Hell... some of the functions Decal supported were eventually coded directly into the game, since they turned out to be nice.

SE is playing a dangerous game here, and they're tossing up a lot of smoke and mirrors. They risk alienating a huge chunk of their playerbase, that chunk being the original PC playerbase. They risk pissing off the longest-standing of the NA playerbase, and they'll either wise up, or FFXI will fail.

People wont stand for being slapped around forever.

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*RNG75* WAR42 NIN37 SAM30 SMN19 BLM18 WHM14
DYNAMIS - XARCABARD INTERLOPER x 2
Windurst Rank 10 ~ San d'Oria Rank 1 ~ *Bastok Rank 6*
Zilart: Complete ~ CoP: Complete

They can detect if you use a windower or anything else, it's really really easy, but they don't have the right to do this. It's a privacy law. So the only way they can "catch" you, it's if you said you use it. They can ask you and if you answer yes....

Edit : O also, They will accuse you only if someone in game told them....

what gets me is this. SE seems to say to us

Windower that helps gameplay? BAD

Bots that disrupt gameplay and piss off and lose us customers? GOOD


how fucking stupid are these ppl? O wait here is a good reason.... ever heard of them running down on JP windower? Funny how once NA get a windower that shows things JP windower has shown for a LONG time we are getting harrased? wtf is that?

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They would have to do a new EULA that allows them to scan your local machine. However, then you would know they are doing said thing. However I like to do GM calls saying "I am using a bot, and if you ban me without proof I can sue you". They don't respond to me anymore though. :'(

No, I probably can't sue them.

I think all 3rd Party programs are lame, windower included. People will always be able to use all these game enhancing programs due to privacy laws. Shit is all lame. I dont get to use some of the functions people get when using a windower. Its all cheating to me, whether it is showing another PT members TP or warping you to where a NM will pop 1 sec before it appears... Its all cheating. I would gladly sacrifice some of my privacy to let SE scan shit and ban all people using 3rd Party programs. Not the way the game is suppose to be played, end of story. If they were cracking down on 3rd Party programs, then I would like to see gil sellers and botters gone also. But ofcourse I am dreaming.

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San d'Oria: Rank 10 ~ Bastok: Rank 10 ~ Windurst: Rank 10
Rise of Zilart: Ark Angels / Chains of Promathia: Completed / Treasures of Aht Urghan: TBA

windower basically allows you to search forums or do homework etc while seeking for pt. Its not an awful thing at all. I take it your on Ps2? If you are then you dont really need to worry about it since you can have your computer running at the same time. Seeing a members Tp or a mobs HP is just an added bonus and only relays information SE has GIVEN YOU. All this info is on you computer, none of it is taken or hacked from the server. SE gives you all this info and windower just lets you see it. I fail to see where this falls into the cheating category because it doesnt effect others. that's what cheating is. This doesnt give an unfair advantage to anyone. It's basically something SE should have put in the game a long time ago. Kinda funny if ppl think this is a bad program lol.

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yup, i unistalled the game and canceled my content ID, kept the discs and everything though just incase i have a change of heart within the 3 months.

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I still think its all cheating. Yes I am on PS2. Maybe I am biased or w/e but I still think it is cheating. I have heard of ppl with windowers that tell you how many shadows u have left or an on screen timer of JAs. Its enhancing your gameplay in my eyes.

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San d'Oria: Rank 10 ~ Bastok: Rank 10 ~ Windurst: Rank 10
Rise of Zilart: Ark Angels / Chains of Promathia: Completed / Treasures of Aht Urghan: TBA

ummm it doesn enhance YOUR gameplay however it DOESNT effect OTHER's gameplay. you can argue either way on that though I guess lol. But yeah id say your a little bias being on PS2 hehe. My friend plays PS2 and I know they get pissed when I show them the windower lol. Only thing I can see as being cheating are what KFC has,anything that controls your character while you are not at the computer, and memloc editors(I think that's what they are called?)


Also something im reading on one of Matti's links is that SE never said anything against 3rd party programs and cant ban you for use of them. Im still reading but they provide a valid point as to why SE cant. One being SE cant detect you using one ever.

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Lol, if you can enhance YOUR gameplay but I cant enhance MINE then I consider that cheating. It should be either no one has it or everyone has it and I prefer that no one has it. And thats just the thing, if ppl have it, then it will give ppl like KFC a chance to abuse it. If they are going to ban 3rd Party Programs, then they should ban ALL 3rd Party Programs, windowers included.

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San d'Oria: Rank 10 ~ Bastok: Rank 10 ~ Windurst: Rank 10
Rise of Zilart: Ark Angels / Chains of Promathia: Completed / Treasures of Aht Urghan: TBA

Sad thing is this. SE cant ban you for a 3rd party program even if you tell them you are using one. Anyone remember the GM's saying they couldnt ban RMT even if they admitted to selling gil? Same concept here. All they have are scare tactics. And you PS2 ppl get faster load time and that cool cup holder at the same time! :D

Also arnt VoiceChat, winamp, teamspeak and all that 3rd party programs too? :P

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Fuck SE, I'm using my Windower just as much as ever. I just won't tell my friends. >.>

As to Valisk's response, I can understand his argument with the TParty feature of the client. It gives us an unfair advantage over people without the plug-in and people on PS2, minor as it may be, and it gives us access to something SE never intended to give us direct access to, client-side information or not. HOWEVER. The actual "windower" part of the program should in no way be considered "cheating". It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the actual game. It gives no one any advantage, information, or abilities under any circumstances, it simply allows a player to do other things while they play, just like a PS2 user and boot up his or her computer while THEY play. I never understood SE's unbelievable resistance to having FFXI running in Windowed mode, but I haven't heard of a PC MMO in the last several YEARS that didn't allow a player to at least minimize it.

If SE scans MY computer, looking for alterations to my .dll files, and bans my account, I will immediately call a lawyer. I will not tolerate it. Neither should anyone else. Good day.

Well FFXI was initally only intended for PS2. It wasnt until after a few months into developement that SE realized they had the technology and budget to make the 1st multi-platform MMORPG. FFXI was released in Japan on PS2 about 7 months before it was released for PC in Japan. I agree they should let you minimize so that you dont have to use a 3rd Party Program to do so.

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San d'Oria: Rank 10 ~ Bastok: Rank 10 ~ Windurst: Rank 10
Rise of Zilart: Ark Angels / Chains of Promathia: Completed / Treasures of Aht Urghan: TBA

If you read the link Matti has in one of his posts they make a lot of points about SE I never considered lol. 1 being they never honor US the customer 2) they do their updates in secret and dont tell us till its done. I mean wtf is that right there? I would think they would tell us their ideas and accept feedback. I mean a lot of the updates cause problems with people and some people down right hate...instead of gimping the game and concentrating on windowers they could spend this time fixing the economy. The only reason they have a problem with this windower is because the JP windower is a go between for the flying hacks and what not. So they attack us and not them? Kinda silly I say. Like saying "Omg the NA community is getting close to being able to cheat like the JP! That would lvl the playing ground!"

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i deleted all the stupid lil features it came with all i want is for ff to be windowed and thats what i did, i have no interest in seeing my timers or other ppls tp and shit.

The newest Windower is pretty damn shady. I don't really like how people can add plugins. Shit's going to get abused. lol

lol shit is already abused :P

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